Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

[jammonius]

Dude, I linked the manifests, complete with the handwritten notes from the boarding agent.

You did no such thing. You linked a copy of a copy from the 9/11 Commission. It is not authenticated by the issuing airline at all. Your own source says:

"(Page #1 of the Flight 175 manifest, as contained in the 9/11 Commission files.)"

Who cares what is contained in the 9/11 Commission files, given the history of the commission as it relates to veracity. Last we were told, that commission was told "not to delve too deeply" right? That commission does not have the power to authenticate documents received from elsewhere and 5 years ago and released in 2009, after the commission itself had long since disbanded amid accusations and recriminations between and among members and staff members.

Sheesh.

Let me guess - you want the copies of the printouts that were on the planes? "Inaccuracy and confusion" about a plane crash; yeah, what a crazy thought.

No, that is not what is wanted at all and you know it. What is wanted is authenticated lists from the issuers; namely the airlines. They have not issued any such manifests.

 

[BigAl]

You did no such thing. You linked a copy of a copy from the 9/11 Commission. It is not authenticated by the issuing airline at all. Your own source says:

"(Page #1 of the Flight 175 manifest, as contained in the 9/11 Commission files.)"

What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, who was last seen boarding Flight 93, who's name is on the Flight 93 manifest and who made a call from the plane while it was over Western PA describing the hijacking?

 

[carlitos]

I am unaware of how to insert a physical piece of paper into an internet discussion forum. Maybe some other posters could help me with this.

The manifests should be:

Authenticated by whom?

Issued to whom?

 

[jammonius]

I am unaware of how to insert a physical piece of paper into an internet discussion forum. Maybe some other posters could help me with this.

The manifests should be:

Authenticated by whom?

Issued to whom?

It's not rocket science, Carlitos: Issued by the party that generated it. In re Flight 175, that would be United Airlines. They have issued no such document that is publicly available. As to authentication, there is no set way to do this; it merely has to say what formalities were observed to assure authenticity. This ofen involves something as simple as a notary public statement, involving a signature and a notary seal. In other instances, reference to a trial exhibit could serve equally well.

I'll even go so far as to say that if the Moussaoui trial had contained an actual passenger manifest, rather than a second hand spread sheet, that might have been considered authentic, even if only based on Moussaoui's signature on a stipulation.

The overwhelming weakness of the passenger manifest issue is confirmed precisely because in the one trial where such a document would have been expected, it was nowhere to be found. Nada, zero, zilch, zip.

all the best

ps

At this late date, and after all the time that has transpired, and in light of the failure to produce an authentic list during the Moussaoui epoch, the production of one now, even if appearing to be authentic, would, nonetheless, remain questionable.

It is always necessary to be forthcoming and transparent with respect to important claims of proof. That requirement has already been hopelessly compromised to the point of nonexistence with respect to flight manifests for 9/11.

Sorry, but the flight manifest issue is a complete failure amongst debunkers. You folks should have demanded better. That said, 9/11 involved no jetliners, so you probably did the best you could with what you had. And, what you had was a psyop.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

You are fooling no one, save, perhaps, yourself and those who want to be fooled. No passenger manifests were presented, let alone authenticated ones.

If you want to start a thread about passengers from flights other than Flight 175, feel free to do so and I will reply fully in such threads. I have already addressed Ed Felt in various Flight 93 threads. If you are interested in what I have said about that, as you and others appear to be, please search for my replies. There have been many.

Flight 93 crashed on it's own & wasn't shot down nor was it a "fake" flight, how do I know, I live 20 miles North of Shanksville & you live no where near that town. Nor do you live in NY, from what I've seen on the internet.

 

[carlitos]

jammonius, it's been said before, but just one more time, with some specificity might help.

1 - Print out this thread, along with the "flat debris pile at GZ" thread.
2 - Bring them with you to a mental health professional.

I wish you well.

 

[BigAl]

Sorry, but the flight manifest issue is a complete failure amongst debunkers. You folks should have demanded better. That said, 9/11 involved no jetliners, so you probably did the best you could with what you had. And, what you had was a psyop.

What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, who was last seen boarding Flight 93, who's name is on the Flight 93 manifest and who made a call from the plane while it was over Western PA describing the hijacking and who's DNA was recovered along with the DNA of everyone else listed on the boarding manifest and with essentially the entire plane, Flight 93.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Sorry, but the flight manifest issue is a complete failure amongst debunkers. You folks should have demanded better. That said, 9/11 involved no jetliners, so you probably did the best you could with what you had. And, what you had was a psyop.

First plane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE82r4ycQs4

Second plane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XELamUnF0EU

Pentagon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

Flight 93:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZekosYOmXc

You say no planes, I say you're so full of **** pal! You got evidence or are you just gonna sit there typing up an excuse why you don't have evidence of your stupid "no plane" theory? Either way I look at it Jamster, you're nothing but an attention getting TROLL!

Also Jamster, read this tid bit from this source - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread312764/pg1 & please read the hilited section:

So if there was no planes hitting the towers, how is it that every single video footage available show us a plane hitting the buildings? You can't drive a snowmobile into a shed in cottage country without people seeing it so how is it that we can't find a single video footage that reveals no plane hit the second tower? Surely some people would be on the opposite side of the building and would not see the plane coming in, they would only see the ensuing explosion without the plane. But of all those who were on the proper side, how is it that none of them can tell us that they saw the building explode without a plane going in? How is it that the perpetrators managed to confiscate every conceivable video of the impact and add "digital fakery" to them? How did they manage to make sure that nobody catches the building on video exploding without a plane going in?

These simple logical questions can not be answered amongst many other questions, so the no-planer theorists just ignore them, they just pretend that these simple legitimate questions are irrelevant for one obscure reason or an other. And this allows them to keep promulgating their false theories. They know very well that their theories do not hold a candle to simple logic, but that's what they want. They want to create the impression that the truth movement is as illogical as these theories are, they are attempting to destroy the truth movement's credibility and bury the truth under yet an other pile of lies, "conspiracy theories", distortions, false evidences and laughable claims just as was done during the years after the JFK assassinations.

 

[twinstead]

I think jammonius's claim that there were no planes makes truthers look like idiots thus discrediting the entire movement. Perfect psyops. We've got to keep the truth from getting out, and making truthers look like blathering fools is a great way to accomplish this.

In fact, I think jammonius is actually Bob in accounting here in NWO Towers. Bob, if that's you, poke your head up from your cubicle and show me a sign--you are BRILLIANT!

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

By whom was Ed Felt last seen boarding flight 93? Post your proof, BigAl.

Furthermore, please do so in a new thread.

Sorry Rainman, you are the one who needs to provide proof.

Why is it so difficult for you to answer a question?

What do youy think happened to Ed Felt and Betty Ong?

Sane people know what happened to them- they were murdered when their planes were crashed by Islamic terroists on 9/11.
But as you are clearly insane, you can't see the obvious when it's right in front of your face.....

I find your dismissal of those who died to be disgusting.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

I'm beginning to wonder whether you know what proof is?

Do you?

You think there was no proof those planes hit the towers?
Gee, all we have for proof are thousands of on site eye witnesses, video footage of the crashes from multiple angles, the flights were tracked from beginning to end by radar, body parts and wreckage & luggage from the planes found onsite, calls from the planes, video footage of some of the terrorists at the airport, those who boarded the planes on 9/11 have not been seen alive since, etc, etc.

You call that no proof?

If you think the above is fake, PROVE IT. The burden is on you to prove your insane theory, and to date, you've failed.

ps- where is Ed Felt and Betty Ong? Why do their friends and families mourn for them if as you claim there was no plane crash?

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

By whom was Ed Felt last seen boarding flight 93? Post your proof, BigAl.

Furthermore, please do so in a new thread.

Ed Felt's family and freinds haven't seen him alive since 9/11. Where do you think he is?

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I think jammonius's claim that there were no planes makes truthers look like idiots thus discrediting the entire movement. Perfect psyops. We've got to keep the truth from getting out, and making truthers look like blathering fools is a great way to accomplish this.

In fact, I think jammonius is actually Bob in accounting here in NWO Towers. Bob, if that's you, poke your head up from your cubicle and show me a sign--you are BRILLIANT!

I think Jamster's hiding the fact that he knows that planes hit the towers & that planes were used on 9/11. He's just masking this truth by making up lies in order to throw us all off track that he knows, for sure, that there were planes. Why else would he come to a forum, where logic & reality, are the dominant topics & assume that he knows the "answers" to everything? He's playing possum with us. He knows that the 9/11 Truth disreguards the No-Plane people because the 9/11 Truth know that what a No-Planer says is utter crap. Jamster reminds me of Bill.

 

[Oystein]

You are fooling no one, save, perhaps, yourself and those who want to be fooled. No passenger manifests were presented, let alone authenticated ones.

If you want to start a thread about passengers from flights other than Flight 175, feel free to do so and I will reply fully in such threads. I have already addressed Ed Felt in various Flight 93 threads. If you are interested in what I have said about that, as you and others appear to be, please search for my replies. There have been many.

Dodge noted.

You never shy away from repeating your sillinesses ad nauseam. Why now?
You never ever shy away from writing many words to say near to nothing.
What stops you to write a few words to say something, for a change? Namely, where is Ed Felt, Al's personal aquaintance? And where is Betty Ong, the sister of Carrie, Gloria and Harry? In either instance, your answer must logically fall into exactly one of these classes:
A) Person boarded plane that crashed on 9/11
B) Person never lived at all
C) Person died before 9/11
D) Person lived beyond 9/11
E) Person died on 9/11, but not by plane crash

So your answer could potentially be very brief and have the following form:
Betty: A)
Ed: A)

If you pick a different letter, of course you are free (read: expected) to give reasons.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

I think jammonius's claim that there were no planes makes truthers look like idiots thus discrediting the entire movement. Perfect psyops. We've got to keep the truth from getting out, and making truthers look like blathering fools is a great way to accomplish this.

!

Even Truther Alex Jones admits no-planers are nutcases...
(WTC no planers that is. Most Truthers are Pentagon and Shanksville No-planers)

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

Dodge noted.

You never shy away from repeating your sillinesses ad nauseam. Why now?
You never ever shy away from writing many words to say near to nothing.
What stops you to write a few words to say something, for a change? Namely, where is Ed Felt, Al's personal aquaintance? And where is Betty Ong, the sister of Carrie, Gloria and Harry? In either instance, your answer must logically fall into exactly one of these classes:
A) Person boarded plane that crashed on 9/11
B) Person never lived at all
C) Person died before 9/11
D) Person lived beyond 9/11
E) Person died on 9/11, but not by plane crash

So your answer could potentially be very brief and have the following form:
Betty: A)
Ed: A)

If you pick a different letter, of course you are free (read: expected) to give reasons.

Jam will just claim he doesn't do 'gotchya' questions.

I find this whole debate surreal , as his no planer theory is without a shred of proof, and without any sense of logic.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

Dodge noted.

You never shy away from repeating your sillinesses ad nauseam. Why now?
You never ever shy away from writing many words to say near to nothing.
What stops you to write a few words to say something, for a change? Namely, where is Ed Felt, Al's personal aquaintance? And where is Betty Ong, the sister of Carrie, Gloria and Harry? In either instance, your answer must logically fall into exactly one of these classes:
A) Person boarded plane that crashed on 9/11
B) Person never lived at all
C) Person died before 9/11
D) Person lived beyond 9/11
E) Person died on 9/11, but not by plane crash

So your answer could potentially be very brief and have the following form:
Betty: A)
Ed: A)

If you pick a different letter, of course you are free (read: expected) to give reasons.

I think it would be:

(F) Jam doesn't care that people were killed on the planes.

 

[EventHorizon]

Hey Event Horizon,

If you want to engage in dialogue with me, please clean up post # 2272 so that it either states a legitimate claim or asks questions that are not stupidly misleading, loaded and/or phrased as a put down.

all the best

Those questions are none of those things. Quit dodging and answer them. As I said, an honest person would have no trouble answering them.

 

[Tinfoil Hater]

It's not rocket science, Carlitos: Issued by the party that generated it. In re Flight 175, that would be United Airlines. They have issued no such document that is publicly available. As to authentication, there is no set way to do this; it merely has to say what formalities were observed to assure authenticity. This ofen involves something as simple as a notary public statement, involving a signature and a notary seal. In other instances, reference to a trial exhibit could serve equally well.

I'll even go so far as to say that if the Moussaoui trial had contained an actual passenger manifest, rather than a second hand spread sheet, that might have been considered authentic, even if only based on Moussaoui's signature on a stipulation.

The overwhelming weakness of the passenger manifest issue is confirmed precisely because in the one trial where such a document would have been expected, it was nowhere to be found. Nada, zero, zilch, zip.

all the best

ps

At this late date, and after all the time that has transpired, and in light of the failure to produce an authentic list during the Moussaoui epoch, the production of one now, even if appearing to be authentic, would, nonetheless, remain questionable.

It is always necessary to be forthcoming and transparent with respect to important claims of proof. That requirement has already been hopelessly compromised to the point of nonexistence with respect to flight manifests for 9/11.

Sorry, but the flight manifest issue is a complete failure amongst debunkers. You folks should have demanded better. That said, 9/11 involved no jetliners, so you probably did the best you could with what you had. And, what you had was a psyop.

What happened to Ed Felt and Betty Ong?

 

[Andy_Ross]

There is no rational reason for planes to be listed as missing. The way to confirm planes was to have catalogued (by part number or other official, verified means) surviving debris or parts. No such thing occurred. No parts were identified or properly catalogued or verifiably kept. Thus, the claim planes are missing is not proven and cannot be claimed as a rational, let alone verifiable claim.

So where are the planes if they didn't hit the towers? They aren't flying anymore, they seem to have disappeared along withtheir crews and passengers. We know they existed, the manufacturers have records of building them. Contracting companies have records of where their parts went. There are airline records going back to their date of purchase showing all the servicing and overhaul details. Engineers and fitters worked on the aircraft and signed their names to the records. Contractors supplied parts and recieved parts back to refurbish from these aircraft, they signed for and certified them. Pilots have logged alltheir hours flying these aircraft.
Airport records going back to the date of purchase show the movements of the aircraft, their fuelling, servicing, landings and take offs.
There are thousands of passengers and hundreds of crew, hundreds of groundstaff and thousand of employees at the manufacturers who all saw and flew or worked on these aircraft.

Where are they?