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Oakland rules on pot

bit_pattern said:
No it doesn't, it comes from businesses working in as close as you can get to a free market.
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Yes, it does. Marijuana is illegal in the Netherlands.

In California it is virtually legal and operating in a competitive, open market, there is nothing to suggest that, aside from normal efficiency gains, that marijuana would become significantly cheaper than it is now once fully legal. and, like with any similar substance people are going to be prepared to pay 10% or 15% extra for the convenience of not having to grow/brew/distill their DOC. I really can't see why a similar tax regime that currently applies to alcohol can't be used for pot.
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And many marijuana growers in California are now in prison.

And the price is well above "10% or 15%" above production costs. More like 6,000%. Such a profit margin is unsustainable in an actual free market.
 
WildCat said:
Yes, it does. Marijuana is illegal in the Netherlands.


And many marijuana growers in California are now in prison.

And the price is well above "10% or 15%" above production costs. More like 6,000%. Such a profit margin is unsustainable in an actual free market.
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Production costs for growing marijuana should be in the same ballpark as the costs of growing oregano.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Sure but the street cost has established what people will pay for it, why would they want prices to go down?
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I'm sure they don't want prices to go down. But the reality is the entire nation's demand for marijuana could be met with a few thousand acres under cultivation. Such a profit margin, once legal, would attract hundreds of thousands of acres under cultivation, resulting in an extreme glut. Prices plummet.

Like other niche crops, marijuana farming, if legal, would be part of a vertically integrated corporation. IOW, the marijuana companies would grow their own produce, much as spice companies grow their own. No farmer would take the initiative to grow it in hopes of selling it to a distributor (as corn is grown), because his chances of selling it are slim to none.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Sure but the street cost has established what people will pay for it, why would they want prices to go down?
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When individuals aren't risking having their homes and property confiscated for simply growing enough to support their own desire and that of a handful of friends and neighbors, the economic dynamics are likely to change drastically. The price people are willing to pay for black market herb is weighed, among other criteria, against the risk of growing your own. Significantly reduce or eliminate that risk and it'll be a completely different ballgame.

Of course people will also weigh the time, effort, and cost of growing their own against what they're willing to pay for a commercially available product. But excellent marijuana can be grown cheaply in garages, basements, and backyards in pretty much any part of North America. And it doesn't take very many plants or very much garden space to keep a couple of people well supplied. So that line where the taxes make it more expensive to buy than to grow, where it becomes more reasonable to grow a couple of plants or get involved with a small co-op of friends, will likely be a lot lower than the current price of bootleg pot. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of the price of herbs and spices, like a few dollars an ounce.
 
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WildCat said:
I'm sure they don't want prices to go down. But the reality is the entire nation's demand for marijuana could be met with a few thousand acres under cultivation. Such a profit margin, once legal, would attract hundreds of thousands of acres under cultivation, resulting in an extreme glut. Prices plummet.
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Sure and you could sell pure grain alcohol for say a dollar a quart. You will never see that because people have an interest in keeping prices up.
 
pipelineaudio said:
Getting rid of the laws would greatly reduce the harm that illegals cause. I don't know what it has to do with mexicans per se
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Because that is why they outlawed it in the first place. Because it was a drug of Mexicans and not proper Americans. The push to outlaw it came from the southwest to fight mexicans and from paper manufacturers. They even had studies at the time that showed that it wouldn't be helpful to outlaw it.

But rationality has always had little to do with this.
 
GeeMack said:
[...]

So that line where the taxes make it more expensive to buy than to grow, where it becomes more reasonable to grow a couple of plants or get involved with a small co-op of friends, will likely be a lot lower than the current price of bootleg pot. Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of the price of herbs and spices, like a few dollars an ounce.
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I agree. And I can't imagine a way that marijuana possession be decriminalized, production legalized, and the price remain as high as it is today. The amount of taxation and fees imposed by the state would have to be higher than anything I can imagine in order for that to be true. I don't know of anything that is taxed in the 1000% range, and even the most left-wing, or draconian of politicians wouldn't write that bill, and of course, were marijuana taxed that much, people would likely just buy bootleg pot, and take the slap on the wrist if caught.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Sure and you could sell pure grain alcohol for say a dollar a quart. You will never see that because people have an interest in keeping prices up.
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Please, describe the mechanism that keeps a substance that costs a buck or 2 per ounce to grow to sell for $400/oz.

Bear in mind that entry barriers are so low as to be virtually non-existent.
 
Medical marijuana should be legalized just as soon as they can breed out that really bad side affect, intoxication.

Oddly, I don't hear many people pushing for research into intoxication-free pot...
 
kevinquinnyo said:
I agree. And I can't imagine a way that marijuana possession be decriminalized, production legalized, and the price remain as high as it is today. The amount of taxation and fees imposed by the state would have to be higher than anything I can imagine in order for that to be true. I don't know of anything that is taxed in the 1000% range, and even the most left-wing, or draconian of politicians wouldn't write that bill, and of course, were marijuana taxed that much, people would likely just buy bootleg pot, and take the slap on the wrist if caught.
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The Federal tax alone on loose cigarette tobacco is just under $25/lb. State taxes add various amounts to that.

Admittedly that is not 1000%, but then tobacco isn't a Schedule I Controlled Substance that's been a Federal bad boy for three quarters of a century.

Yet.
 
pipelineaudio said:
As a Hawaiian, I'd like to see evidence of this
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It's well documented:
The racist comments are nothing new, when you consider the words of Harry Anslinger, the architect of the “Reefer Madness” style campaign against marijuana that insured that the former Bureau of Prohibition agent could enjoy over 30 years of job security in his position as Commissioner of the newly formed Federal Bureau of Narcotics. Masterfully using the media, Anslinger effectively lead a campaign of lies and racism to shift the public’s opinion to acceptance of the government’s prohibition of marijuana that officially became law in 1937 despite objections from the American Medical Association.

Harry Anslinger quotes:

“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.”

“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”

“…the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races.”
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http://www.examiner.com/x-18527-Bro...izes-to-Hispanics-for-marijuana-insensitivity
 
Well, good riddance to the attitudes in that quote, except for the bit about entertainers. I long for the days when "singing for your supper" put you at the bottom of the totem pole, not the top.
 
Beerina said:
Well, good riddance to the attitudes in that quote, except for the bit about entertainers. I long for the days when "singing for your supper" put you at the bottom of the totem pole, not the top.
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I long for the days when it put you on the totem pole at all. These days, you PAY to sing someplace where diners can hear you, except for a very small percentage of said singers
 
ponderingturtle said:
Sure and you could sell pure grain alcohol for say a dollar a quart. You will never see that because people have an interest in keeping prices up.
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This is a very interesting point. I could make my own alcohol, I am not worried about getting busted. But I do not. I could, with some initial investment, make enough for my needs at a cheap enough price -- at least I think so. But I don't.

Is it different for marijuana?

How much does weed cost? I mean, for a semi-regular smoker? Is the amount a significant part of their budget?
 
marplots said:
This is a very interesting point. I could make my own alcohol, I am not worried about getting busted. But I do not. I could, with some initial investment, make enough for my needs at a cheap enough price -- at least I think so. But I don't.

Is it different for marijuana?
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Imagine if a liter of whiskey cost $2,500.

Now you're in the ballpark to compare with the street price of marijuana.
 
Exactly.

I think many from the pro-legalization crowd miss the point when we say that growing it will be too easy and far more convenient, and frankly the only option for some, due to it being heavily taxed. The general response is something like, "well I could technically grow my own tomatoes-- but it's far more convenient to just buy it from the grocery store."

I don't think that's a valid analogy considering it ignores the grand amount of tax we're talking here.
 
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