Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

[jammonius]

Jammy, the passenger manifests for all four flights were submitted to a court of law as evidence, they were accepted by both the prosecution and the defense as evidence, and you know that.

So, with that in mind, where is Ed Felt, the passenger who sat in seat 2D on Flight 93?

You are fooling no one, save, perhaps, yourself and those who want to be fooled. No passenger manifests were presented, let alone authenticated ones.

If you want to start a thread about passengers from flights other than Flight 175, feel free to do so and I will reply fully in such threads. I have already addressed Ed Felt in various Flight 93 threads. If you are interested in what I have said about that, as you and others appear to be, please search for my replies. There have been many.

 

[jammonius]

But there were planes, they are missing just as much as the passengers are.

In an around about way, your post provides a NO PLANE answer, of sorts.

There is no rational reason for planes to be listed as missing. The way to confirm planes was to have catalogued (by part number or other official, verified means) surviving debris or parts. No such thing occurred. No parts were identified or properly catalogued or verifiably kept. Thus, the claim planes are missing is not proven and cannot be claimed as a rational, let alone verifiable claim.

Do you understand that or not?

 

[carlitos]

Hey, it's 2006!

Moussaoi trial evidence - download 27 meg zip file of a flash presentation here - http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200055.html This gives all four flights with passenger names and locations. It was admitted into evidence as exhibit P200055.

United flight 175 passengers can be seen here - http://www.911myths.com/images/3/3c/Flight_175_Manifest_Moussaoui.gif

ETA - Just to clarify, the gif image at 911myths is a screengrab from exhibit P200055, which is much easier than downloading a 27 meg zip file and slagging through the whole presentation.

 

[TJM]

In an around about way, your post provides a NO PLANE answer, of sorts.

There is no rational reason for planes to be listed as missing. The way to confirm planes was to have catalogued (by part number or other official, verified means) surviving debris or parts. No such thing occurred. No parts were identified or properly catalogued or verifiably kept. Thus, the claim planes are missing is not proven and cannot be claimed as a rational, let alone verifiable claim.

Do you understand that or not?

Yeah, except for all those pesky plane parts and human remains strewn about Manhattan. They came from the airplanes that thousands saw with their own eyes.

 

[carlitos]

Scans of passenger manifest from FBI

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Ual175manifest1.png

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Ual175manifest2.png

Fuselage of United flight 175:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Flight_175_Fuselage.jpg

Engine:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Flight_175_engine.jpg

 

[jammonius]

Hey Event Horizon,

If you want to engage in dialogue with me, please clean up post # 2272 so that it either states a legitimate claim or asks questions that are not stupidly misleading, loaded and/or phrased as a put down.

all the best

 

[jammonius]

Scans of passenger manifest from FBI

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Ual175manifest1.png

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Ual175manifest2.png

Fuselage of United flight 175:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Flight_175_Fuselage.jpg

Engine:
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Image:Flight_175_engine.jpg

Carlitos,

Thank you for proving my claim there are no authenticated passenger lists or proof of plane parts.

Your stupid debunker website is not a source for authentic evidence. Your links prove the point that the only basis for quintessentially important 9/11 claims is propaganda websites put together by amateurs.

Thank you.

 

[jammonius]

Yeah, except for all those pesky plane parts and human remains strewn about Manhattan. They came from the airplanes that thousands saw with their own eyes.

Do or do you not realize that your quoted statement does not refer to a single piece of evidence at all?

I know you "believe" the common storyline of 9/11. Your belief is not being questioned. What is being called attention to is that the claims of planes, of crashes, of passengers, of hijackers etc., being some of the quintessential elements of the common storyline of 9/11, have not ever been proven by competent evidence. I here reiterate that you cannot, will not and have not provided competent evidence for any of the elements of the common storyline of 9/11 that you believe.

Your belief, then, is unsubtantiated and cannot be proven rationally.

I do not care what .you believe. I do care about what you can prove.

The stupid debunker website, "9/11myths" is aptly named, afterall.

 

[TJM]

Do or do you not realize that your quoted statement does not refer to a single piece of evidence at all?

It is a fact that flights 11 and 175 crashed into the World Trade Center. Your verbal gymnastics, hand waving and outright lies cannot change that.

 

[jammonius]

Moussaoi trial evidence - download 27 meg zip file of a flash presentation here - http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200055.html This gives all four flights with passenger names and locations. It was admitted into evidence as exhibit P200055.

United flight 175 passengers can be seen here - http://www.911myths.com/images/3/3c/Flight_175_Manifest_Moussaoui.gif

ETA - Just to clarify, the gif image at 911myths is a screengrab from exhibit P200055, which is much easier than downloading a 27 meg zip file and slagging through the whole presentation.

The Moussaoui trial evidence is not proof of anything beyond that one case. That is all that the Stipulation that Moussaoui signed can do; namely, indicate his agreement as to what evidence comes in. In addition, Moussaoui copped a plea and did not even put the evidence through its paces so as to have it considered by a jury. There was no verdict, one way or the other. Thus, the sole claim that can be made about the Moussaoui trial exhibits is that Moussaoui, as an individual allowed them to come in. His agreement to have them come in is not the same as authentication. Unfortunately, as the Moussaoui exhibits might well be the very best the debunker side can do, I understand the debunker side will defend, elevate, aggrandize and/or trumpet the Moussaoui exhibits for all they are worth (next to nothing) and hope for the best.

You poor, poor, pitiful debunkers: You are reduced to elevating Zacharias Moussaoui to the stature of the "prover of 9/11". That is funny.

It is interesting in its own right that the plight of the common storyline of 9/11 depends very heavily upon the Moussaoui trial exhibits as proof, literally making Zacharias Moussaoui, individually, solely by virtue of his signature on a trial Stipulation, as the person who authenticates what happened on 9/11 via a few dozen inconclusive, poorly prepared documents and photos.

In case I have not been clear, let me do so now:

The fact that the Moussaoui Stipulation looms so large and plays such a dominant role in debunker circles merely serves to confirm that the common storyline of 9/11 has not ever been proven by competent evidence. That, and nothing more.

Do you folks not realize how absurd your reliance upon Zacharias Moussaoui to prove 9/11 for you, is?

 

[jammonius]

It is a fact that flights 11 and 175 crashed into the World Trade Center. Your verbal gymnastics, hand waving and outright lies cannot change that.

I'm beginning to wonder whether you know what proof is?

Do you?

 

[TJM]

I'm beginning to wonder whether you know what proof is?

Do you?

I have no doubt you don't.

 

[carlitos]

QFT

lol, who authenticates passenger manifests?

This. ^^^

 

[BigAl]

Do or do you not realize that your quoted statement does not refer to a single piece of evidence at all?

What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, last seen boarding flight 93?

 

[jammonius]

What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt, last seen boarding flight 93?

By whom was Ed Felt last seen boarding flight 93? Post your proof, BigAl.

Furthermore, please do so in a new thread.

 

[jammonius]

This. ^^^

Am I to understand you are saying the following query needs to be answered:

Originally Posted by 3bodyproblem
lol, who authenticates passenger manifests?

The answer to that query is that the primary source used by airlines to locate the next-of-kin of aircraft crash victims is the passenger list (or flight manifest). Passenger lists are also a legal document proving – for insurance purposes - that particular individuals boarded an aircraft that subsequently crashed. This is why airlines meticulously check the identities of passengers who board the aircraft.

With regard to the four 9/11 flights, American and United Airlines have refused to produce the authentic passenger lists or certified copies thereof.

Furthermore, and despite the importance of accurate listing of passengers, as noted above, the passenger list-claims put out in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 went through several changes, revisions and was characterized more by the appearance of inaccuracy and of confusion, rather than meticulous and legally mandated accuracy.

I know, in advance, that debunkers are all too ready to provide a rationalization and a justification for the uncertainty and to just blame all on how horrible 9/11 was and such like.

The actual experience of the 9/11 flight passenger listings were the exact opposite of the demands for accuracy specified above; and, for that, there is no real excuse, except in the context that what was presented was all a hoax and a psyop. Looked at from that perspective, the lack of accurate, verifiable passenger manifests makes perfect sense.

 

[BigAl]

By whom was Ed Felt last seen boarding flight 93? Post your proof, BigAl.

Furthermore, please do so in a new thread.

I don't feed trolls when they are in the process of vilifying the living and the dead that I knew and know and you don't.

What happened to my work-mate, Ed Felt?

 

[TSR]

With regard to the four 9/11 flights, American and United Airlines have refused to produce the authentic passenger lists or certified copies thereof.

.
Citation?
.

 

[carlitos]

Dude, I linked the manifests, complete with the handwritten notes from the boarding agent. Let me guess - you want the copies of the printouts that were on the planes? "Inaccuracy and confusion" about a plane crash; yeah, what a crazy thought.

 

[tsig]

By whom was Ed Felt last seen boarding flight 93? Post your proof, BigAl.

Furthermore, please do so in a new thread.

You don't believe there was an Ed Felt and that BigAl worked with him?

I know gotcha question.