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Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

The idea of "sovereign citizenship" is spreading beyond the usual white supremacist suspects.

"Sovereign citizens spin history, reject government", Associated Press:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gvxDjyFH9E0S959CVlV4Fhbo7IzgD9HHN4901

SPLC and the ADL each have new reports on the phenomenon:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...e-all-issues/2010/fall/sovereign-citizen-kane

http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Sovereign_Citizen_Movement_Resurgence

This expansion of the idea has been covered by David Neiwert at Crooks and Liars (here and here), where I also found a video you all might find amusing. It is an interview with a Canadian "sovereign citizen", one who doesn't fit the usual profile.

http://crooksandliars.com/node/39174
or just the video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEqfmx-gXHU

The guest isn't the best interviewee, and he rambles a bit before the host interjects just after the two-minute mark. She presses him on his views, especially regarding taxes and public infrastructure.

Best line: "This is all going to be edited, right?"

Even when this guy is talking about the stuff he doesn't know what he's talking about (sovereignty, personhood, and common law), he doesn't know what he's talking about (the details of the fantasy).

Where's the facepalm emoticon?
 
GreyArea said:
The idea of "sovereign citizenship" is spreading beyond the usual white supremacist suspects.

"Sovereign citizens spin history, reject government", Associated Press:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gvxDjyFH9E0S959CVlV4Fhbo7IzgD9HHN4901

SPLC and the ADL each have new reports on the phenomenon:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...e-all-issues/2010/fall/sovereign-citizen-kane

http://www.adl.org/main_Extremism/Sovereign_Citizen_Movement_Resurgence

This expansion of the idea has been covered by David Neiwert at Crooks and Liars (here and here), where I also found a video you all might find amusing. It is an interview with a Canadian "sovereign citizen", one who doesn't fit the usual profile.

http://crooksandliars.com/node/39174
or just the video at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEqfmx-gXHU

The guest isn't the best interviewee, and he rambles a bit before the host interjects just after the two-minute mark. She presses him on his views, especially regarding taxes and public infrastructure.

Best line: "This is all going to be edited, right?"

Even when this guy is talking about the stuff he doesn't know what he's talking about (sovereignty, personhood, and common law), he doesn't know what he's talking about (the details of the fantasy).

Where's the facepalm emoticon?
Click to expand...
funny video that, quality moron on display
 
Another one bites the dust.

Nev. anti-government extremist gets prison for gun

The Associated Press

LAS VEGAS -- A Las Vegas anti-government extremist has been sentenced to 18 months in prison for possession of an unregistered machine gun.

Federal prosecutors say Harold Call was sentenced Tuesday, despite the 68-year-old's attempt to withdraw his plea and fire his lawyer.

Call is one of four anti-government, anti-tax-movement followers arrested in 2009 after a three-year FBI investigation into a group who believed they were separate from the United States. Agents say they held seminars teaching followers how to avoid taxes.

U.S. District Judge Kent Dawson says Call was his own worst enemy, filing frivolous documents the judge described as "stuff from outer space." He must surrender to prison officials by Dec. 1.
Click to expand...

I find it odd that the court would let a nutter like this out on his own to turn himself in. I'd bet money the guy doesn't show.
 
patchbunny said:
Another one bites the dust.



I find it odd that the court would let a nutter like this out on his own to turn himself in. I'd bet money the guy doesn't show.
Click to expand...

He seems to have a history of nuttiness.
http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/InOpHistoric/call.TCM.WPD.pdf
 
Stacey Grove said:
Not sure if this has been posted here but this is pretty good:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2010/tx-sovereign.pdf
Click to expand...

Interestingly, this was a case with a jury (which the FMOTlers claim is all they want) which still found him wrong after his legal magic. I find it hilarious that they spent a mere few sentences on the cornerstone of his appeal (that he is a "sovereign" and not a PERSON):

In his third issue, Gray asserts that the trial court erred by presuming that a “sovereign man” is a “person” subject to the laws of the State of Texas. According to Gray, “sovereignsare excluded from all the statutes.” Gray characterizes himself as a sovereign exempt from the lawsof this State. We disagree. A “person,” as that term is defined by statute, means an individual, corporation, or association. Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 1.07(38) (West Supp. 2009). An “individual”means a human being who is alive. Id. § 1.07(26). Gray is a person subject to the laws of this State.
We overrule Gray’s third issue.
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Gosh darn those facts, always getting in the way of FMOTL propaganda! I would have LOVE to have been in the chambers when this was discussed...I bet the laughter was unbearable.

Unfortunately I bet they just gave the FMOTLers hope with this line:
In his sixth issue, Gray asserts that the trial court erred by denying his motion to dismiss on the ground that the State failed to obtain and correct “the true name of the Sovereign.”
According to Gray, “[t]he Sovereign has never been known as JUSTIN WADE GRADY2 or JUSTIN WAYNE GRAY or any other nom de guerre, misnomer, mistaken identity, or an artificial
entity.” At a pretrial hearing, however, Gray acknowledged that his name is “Justin Wayne Gray.” To the extent Gray is asserting error from the spelling of his name using all capital letters, we
find this argument to be without merit.
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As a non-woo this clearly shows that your name - whether its in caps or not, is your name. However, because the court didn't specifically say this I bet the FMOTL woos will read this and go "See! See! Its not that were wrong, he just messed up the legal incantations by admitting you were a person, thus creating a joinder!" As more and more of these nuts end up in court, I hope judges begin to more explicitly spell stuff out like this...
 
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Another gem on the Freeman forums - and also discussed on the DI forums -
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6994
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133897

Its quite the long story but to put simply: The woo in question thinks his way of dealing with people who "obstruct" his travel by going to slow in left lane traffic is to literally ride the line between the two lanes (on a two lane highway) and take up the entire road. Apparently this made someone mad and they called the cops on him. He gets pulled over, and this happens:

(Copied and pasted as its written, grammatical problems, spelling errors, and everything:)
He then asks me for my drivers licence, I then reply; "sir, without predudice , I am a freeman flesh and blood, I claim common law, and do not consent to joinder between me and my strawman." He then reply's; :aww, a freeman, I love freemen." "you are under arrest for obstructing a officer, and you sound crazy, no one has the right to break the law, so you must be crazy, I am going to send you in for a phsyc evaluation, just to make sure your sane enough to have custody of your child.
Click to expand...

It appears as though the FMOTL woo has grown in popularity enough that at least some police are aware of it and aren't hit blind sided by the legal woo. I love the response too - which is actually quite appropriate. I hope we start doing this to FOTLers everywhere.
 
I worry about their children, too. In the 'Freemen in Ireland' thread we've got a freeman who's convinced his children are being brainwashed against him at school (by the evil EU, telling them about healthy eating, no less). Having had something to do with child protection in the past, this rang some alarm bells for me.
 
LightinDarkness said:
Another gem on the Freeman forums - and also discussed on the DI forums -
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=6994
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133897

Its quite the long story but to put simply: The woo in question thinks his way of dealing with people who "obstruct" his travel by going to slow in left lane traffic is to literally ride the line between the two lanes (on a two lane highway) and take up the entire road. Apparently this made someone mad and they called the cops on him. He gets pulled over, and this happens:

(Copied and pasted as its written, grammatical problems, spelling errors, and everything:)

He then asks me for my drivers licence, I then reply; "sir, without predudice , I am a freeman flesh and blood, I claim common law, and do not consent to joinder between me and my strawman." (snip)
Click to expand...

It appears as though the FMOTL woo has grown in popularity enough that at least some police are aware of it and aren't hit blind sided by the legal woo. I love the response too - which is actually quite appropriate. I hope we start doing this to FOTLers everywhere.
Click to expand...

Well, it seems like the FOTLer did the incantation correctly, but it still didn't have any effect. Maybe he missed or added a word somewhere, or put the emphasis on the wrong syllable. Or maybe it needs to be said in Latin ...
 
X said:
I like how in the second paragraph he references the Criminal Code of Canada.
The authority of which he does not recognize...
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Well, he references it and then immediately goes on to state how he breaks it. He's not "confin[ing] the course of the vehicle to the right hand half of the roadway," and he seems rather proud of it.

And then he's so confused when he gets busted for an act he knows to be illegal....
 
drkitten said:
Well, he references it and then immediately goes on to state how he breaks it. He's not "confin[ing] the course of the vehicle to the right hand half of the roadway," and he seems rather proud of it.

And then he's so confused when he gets busted for an act he knows to be illegal....
Click to expand...
He doesn't even get that right. He's actually referencing the BC Motor Vehicle Act, not the Criminal Code.
 
D'rok said:
He doesn't even get that right. He's actually referencing the BC Motor Vehicle Act, not the Criminal Code.
Click to expand...

Hey, when what you're referencing is only fiction, who cares if you get the volume right? I mean, like, which year was it where Hermione first learned "alohamora"?
 
drkitten said:
Hey, when what you're referencing is only fiction, who cares if you get the volume right? I mean, like, which year was it where Hermione first learned "alohamora"?
Click to expand...
Quite right, quite right. It's just so hard for us legal muggles to understand FOTL magic.
 
gtm said:
I'd love to see a 'freeman state' in action. They'd be demanding handouts from the UN within 3 months though.
Click to expand...

Head on over to Somalia. That's pretty much an exact example of what happens when there is no law other than what each person decides to follow.
 
LightinDarkness said:
Its quite the long story but to put simply: The woo in question thinks his way of dealing with people who "obstruct" his travel by going to slow in left lane traffic is to literally ride the line between the two lanes (on a two lane highway) and take up the entire road.
Click to expand...


His definition of "going too slow" is 100Km/h. Isn't that the maximum speed limit in Canada?

I also like the way he justifies driving between the lanes by saying that he refuses to tailgate. Couldn't he just, er, not tailgate? Is keeping a sensible distance between yourself and the car in front somehow against FOTLer principles?
 
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