• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Drewbot said:
I thought it was just a case of different views of a slightly bent object.

[URL]http://a.imageshack.us/img710/3198/barit.jpg[/URL]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Click to expand...


I'm pretty much done, dealing with the 'doll-hand' illusion.
I think I've made it more than clear that it's completely irrelevant to the issue of Patty's fingers bending.

If you, or anyone else, wants to 'beat a dead horse', Drew....go right ahead.

I'll try to just watch.....and enjoy. :)
 
Since Patty's "fingers" possibly aren't even bending at all, it's a good idea to drop the discussion altogether until further info comes in.

I put "fingers" because at no time in the PGF are any fingers visible at all, let alone any bending ones.

It's amazing to discuss whether or not something is bending, when that something cannot even be seen.

I would also note that it's simpler to bend a mitten than a glove.
 
William Parcher said:
Bill Munns says there is a "camera stop/start" at frames 193 & 234. If true, this means the camera was intentionally or accidentally stopped and restarted twice during the Patty walk.
Click to expand...


Bill Munns has released new additions to his report. Go to Phase Two Releases at the bottom of the page.

It turns out that the PGF has at least 6 "camera starts" and may have 2 additional "single frame exposures". If Roger had simply turned the camera on to film Patty and never shut it off there would be 1 camera start. So there are at least 5 unusual camera starts in only about a minute of shooting.

Camera starts occur at F1 (starts filming Patty), F95, F191, F193, F234 and F267.
 
Last edited:
William Parcher said:
Bill Munns has released new additions to his report. Go to Phase Two Releases at the bottom of the page.

It turns out that the PGF has at least 6 "camera starts" and may have 2 additional "single frame exposures". If Roger had simply turned the camera on to film Patty and never shut it off there would be 1 camera start. So there are at least 5 unusual camera starts in only about a minute of shooting.

Camera starts occur at F1 (starts filming Patty), F95, F191, F193, F234 and F267.
Click to expand...


Here is an excerpt from the Release...


MunnsReportCamStart1.jpg



I think you could only call 4 starts "unusual", rather than 5, William...since Roger must have deliberately stopped the camera just before he ran through the creek.
In addition to the creek itself, there was also an embankment there, that he had to get over.

Running across those would have required a bit more of his attention....so, I don't see Roger switching the camera off, at that point, as very odd.
 
Is it known whether or not that footage came from the 2nd reel of film, shot that same afternoon?
 
SweatyYeti said:
Is it known whether or not that footage came from the 2nd reel of film, shot that same afternoon?
Click to expand...

No it isn't. But you know, that is yet another very unusual thing about the PGF. You see, Bob Gimlin ought to be able to tell us all if that scene is from the "second reel". He would have been the one holding the camera.

Patterson told Krantz that he had created and filmed a fake trackway at Bluff Creek only days before Patty. This could be it. Gimlin would know because he would be filming that too.

Why hasn't anyone asked him? Why doesn't he already know that we want the answer? Bill Munns doesn't know and yet he isn't asking Gimlin either. Maybe it has something to do with those guys who keep skeptics and their curiousity away from Gimlin... the GimlinGuardTM. Maybe there is a damn good reason why we aren't supposed to know the answer. Wink wink nudge nudge. So many unusual things. :boggled:
 
William Parcher said:
No it isn't. But you know, that is yet another very unusual thing about the PGF. You see, Bob Gimlin ought to be able to tell us all if that scene is from the "second reel". He would have been the one holding the camera.

Patterson told Krantz that he had created and filmed a fake trackway at Bluff Creek only days before Patty. This could be it. Gimlin would know because he would be filming that too.

Why hasn't anyone asked him? Why doesn't he already know that we want the answer? Bill Munns doesn't know and yet he isn't asking Gimlin either. Maybe it has something to do with those guys who keep skeptics and their curiousity away from Gimlin... the GimlinGuardTM. Maybe there is a damn good reason why we aren't supposed to know the answer. Wink wink nudge nudge. So many unusual things. :boggled:
Click to expand...


That's some interesting info....and questions, William.

If that image did come from the 2nd reel, it would present a bit of a problem....since it does take quite a while for boots and jeans to completely dry off.


If Gimlin is at next year's Ohio Bigfoot Conference...I'll bring a copy of that image with me...and I'll ask him if he remembers where it was shot.
I would think that would be something he'd be able to recall...if he took some time to look at the picture, and think about it.
 
SweatyYeti said:
If Gimlin is at next year's Ohio Bigfoot Conference...I'll bring a copy of that image with me...and I'll ask him if he remembers where it was shot.
I would think that would be something he'd be able to recall...if he took some time to look at the picture, and think about it.
Click to expand...

It isn't enough to ask him where it was filmed. We want to know if it is the Patty trackway or a faked demo trackway (both were at Bluff Creek). If it is a fake, then when was it filmed and where (in relation to the Patty sandbar). What did you guys do with the plaster casts from the demo tracks? Etc. Etc.

You see, there really are dozens of questions to be asked of Gimlin when he is shown that picture. Then we move on to the camera panning of the tracks. Are those Patty tracks or the demo trackway? Etc. Etc.
 
Another individual who is never questioned about taking photos of Roger Patterson is his widow Pat. I personally asked Bob Gimlin if he had gone to Ape Canyon with Roger Patterson, and he said he did not. So if Gimlin didn't take the "Ape Canyon" photo then who did?

Well, according to the two witnesses I spoke to, it was Pat Patterson, but not at Ape Canyon!

http://orgoneresearch.com/2009/10/19/did-roger-patterson-stage-his-ape-canyon-photograph/

This is old news to many, but if Bill Munns is reading this, perhaps he can ask Pat Patterson what, if any, still photos or films she may have taken of Roger Patterson.
 
Mr. Gimlin, whether or not we have footage of the demo trackway we would like information about it. This was done at Bluff Creek right before you encountered Patty, yes? What did Roger use to create the fake Bigfoot tracks? Did he use tools or devices and were those things carried by the packhorse or did they fit in personal saddlebags? Did you guys destroy the demo casts so that they would never be confused with genuine Bigfoot casts? Etc. Etc.

He knows the answers.
 
If they tracked Patty for 3.5 miles , his boots and pants had plenty of time to dry...

But that raises other, more serious problems...

Why would Roger be holding the exposure lever anyway?

He'd push it all the way on so he could have both hands free.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Why would Roger be holding the exposure lever anyway? He'd push it all the way on so he could have both hands free.
Click to expand...


Munns talks about the pistol grip and how Roger would have been handling the camera and the shutter...

Roger was reportedly using a pistol grip, which would be held with the left hand, and the trigger lever to operate the camera is worked by the right hand. Given the camera is a rather heavy one, relative to magazine 16mm cameras, holding this heavy weight on a pistol grip can be awkward, and so keeping the right hand on the camera in the trigger position even when walking about preparing to film is a comfortable posture for a camera operator. So to envision that during the duration of the filming, Roger held the camera in both hands, with the right on the trigger, is a reasonable expectation.

Given he was moving on irregular ground, this posture would further help, by bracing the camera with right hand.
Click to expand...
 
Wait a minute, I thought Rog was using a mobilgrip?

That also allows the lock to work so you don't have to hold the trigger.

It also makes it extremely unlikely that your finger would slip if you weren't using the lock.

 
tube said:
So if Gimlin didn't take the "Ape Canyon" photo then who did?
Click to expand...

Florence Showman (née Merrit), Jerry's wife at the time. She also took the picture I've attached. The rifle in the photo is from Harvey Anderson's Anderson's Camera and Sport Shop - the man to whom Roger admitted faking tracks and making a hoax film to in 1961. The horse and saddle came from Floyd Paxton, owner of Kwik Lok - the man whom I think Roger got the packhorse from for Bluff Creek 1967 trip #3. The camera - not 16mm Cine Kodak - came from Sheppard's Camera - the place Roger stole the Bluff Creek camera from and was arrested for. Here...

"I also remember taking pictures of Roger sitting around a campfire at Tampico. He was going to use them in his book or whatever. I took pictures of him in his western outfit sitting on his horse." - Florence Showman (MoB, p.132)

And here...

"Patterson conned everybody!" June shouted. (June Swanson, Bob's wife - sitting beside Bob during Greg's interview) "Floyd Paxton was a very, very intelligent man, and Patterson still conned him!"

She said that Paxton had supplied horses and saddles for Patterson to use for publicity shots. "Patterson took the credit. I remember this. Those horses were all Paxton's." she said, sourly. (Patterson was no stranger to taking credit for things that weren't his - bread bag clip, Morton Kunstler's art, etc) "Oh, yeah," said Swanson, a sly grin on his face. "I think there was a photo in the last page of the book with Roger and his rifle." I wasn't familiar with the photo; it wasn't in my edition of the book, which Rene Dahinden had printed. "In the Patterson had a rifle, chaps, a big hat," Swanson said. "All those came from a western store. The camera was from Sheppard's Camera Shop. I remember talking to Mrs. Sheppard about that. The rifle was from Harvey Anderson's Gun Shop. And then Floyd Paxton admitted it was his horse and saddle. We wondered about Patterson's skivvies! Ha, ha! The whole town got in an uproar. Nobody didn't know about Roger. Were business people talking about Roger?" I asked. "Roger was never the topic of conversation. He was just somebody to avoid." - Bob and June Swanson (MoB, p. 223)
 

Attachments

  • Bigpgfad.jpg
    Bigpgfad.jpg
    63.1 KB · Views: 12
Even if you could only use the plain mobilgrip just as a handle, you would lock the exposure lever and steady the camera with both hands if you encountered Patty.

You wouldn't try to hold the lever when you don't have to.

Plus, you can make adjustments if you need to, since you'd have a free hand. You can shield your viewfinder eye, too.
 
kitakaze said:
"I think there was a photo in the last page of the book with Roger and his rifle."...

The rifle was from Harvey Anderson's Gun Shop.
Click to expand...

That photo shows what looks like a lever-action rifle (Winchester?) next to the casts. Roger may also have a rifle in his scabbard.

Gimlin to Green said:
Roger had a .303 British rifle in his saddle scabbard...
Click to expand...

The .303 British is a bolt-action Enfield rifle. It's what Patterson has next to him in the "Ape Canyon" photo.
 

Attachments

  • post-1483-1199775986_thumb.jpg
    post-1483-1199775986_thumb.jpg
    29.8 KB · Views: 2
  • 633975048925478678vdrx3gwu.jpg
    633975048925478678vdrx3gwu.jpg
    34.4 KB · Views: 2
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom