The hunt for Raoul Moat

Am I the only one who thinks it strange that Moat was caught - and died - right next to a stream, and none of the broadsheets point this out?
 
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Wolfman said:
Actually, it sounds more like you're claiming that the police lied about what Moat wrote in his letters (or made the letters up entirely). Because if A) he wrote the letters, and B) the police released Moat's actual words, then releasing that information to the public was pretty much their moral duty -- to give people warning that this was a seriously disturbed and dangerous individual.

Anyone can "ask questions". Watch, I'll do it:

"Is it possible that George W. Bush is actually an alien hybrid?"

However, the ability to simply ask questions does not, in and of itself, make one a skeptic. "Is it possible that the moon is really made out of green cheese" or "Is it possible that the Easter Bunny really exists" would not really be reasonable, "skeptical" questions for an adult with a decent knowledge of science to ask.

When a skeptic asks questions, they do so with evidence to demonstrate the validity of a question. The question addresses existing questions in a manner better than a prevailing theory does. Or it points out new problems that have not previously been considered.

Your question does neither. It not only is pure speculation based on no real evidence outside of your own mind, but it actually fits the evidence less well than current info does. Unless you have anything -- anything at all, outside of your imagination -- to indicate either that the letter the police released was not written by Moat, or that the contents released by the police were not Moat's words.
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Case of emphasis and timing. I didn't say they Lied.

As for your "lesson" in the second part, you need not worry. I don't need your aggressive finger wagging, thanks for taking the time though.

I suppose using a phrase like "It sounds more like you're..." Kind of covers one from a lack of evidence, see I'm learning.
 
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fuelair said:
No offense, but I am pretty sure he means England for one. And, based on posts here, I would suspect Norway also..........and.......
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Seems a tad strange to not just say Norway and England then - since they are only two of the 40 plus countries that are typically labelled "European".
 
Wolfman said:
Actually, it sounds more like you're claiming that the police lied about what Moat wrote in his letters (or made the letters up entirely).
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Thing is though that we had one letter that was released in full, in which he specifically said that the public had nothing to fear, only police. And then later the police said that they had another letter which we weren't allowed to see, where he apparently made a threat to the wider public.

You can interpret that as meaning that he was planning to go on a gun-toting rampage gunning down random strangers, or that the letter contained some specific threat to people who weren't police. Or somewhere in between. We were never told exactly what this "wider threat" might be, just left to draw our own conclusions.
 
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Fiona said:
You may be right Richardm. for me, as I read about him, he was a violent person who beat his partners and his children, as a matter of course: and he killed because "his" woman refused his control. I had very little sympathy for him. He came across as a whining bully with a great sense of entitlement: narcisstic at best. You may have seen him as pathetic and in need of help: but some of those who posted on his facebook appear to have seen him as a model for manhood. Just one of the lads, really. Not to me, though sadly not unusual.
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Agreed on all counts and I'm sure I wouldn't have liked him at all had I ever actually met him; but that does all support the contention that there was quite a bit of support for him out there and I don't think it's a stretch to think that the police might be keen to stomp on that.

The policeman that he shot has popped up today to say that he bears no malice towards him which I suspect is more charitable than I'd be under the circumstances.
 
richardm said:
Thing is though that we had one letter that was released in full, in which he specifically said that the public had nothing to fear, only police. And then later the police said that they had another letter which we weren't allowed to see, where he apparently made a threat to the wider public.

You can interpret that as meaning that he was planning to go on a gun-toting rampage gunning down random strangers, or that the letter contained some specific threat to people who weren't police. Or somewhere in between. We were never told exactly what this "wider threat" might be, just left to draw our own conclusions.
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The threat to the wider community was made in a dictaphone recording found in his tent on tuesday, released on wed (the threat that is). Apparently he was unhappy with how the mnedia were reporting his past and said "the rules had changed". This was released at the press conference after Moat death. Obviously this is ambiguouis I so imagine a lot of advice will have been sought therefore a one day wait isn't unjustified. I think the inference was the press but he didn't make a specific threat just the rules have changed. Given these circumstances (if correct) I can't see much else the police could do, they had to make the public aware of a potential threat.

The recording was over 4 hours long and all over the place according to the police. Was the first letter not released as it was already in the hands of the public? The Sun had a copy before the police!

Why we haven't got the full recording or the why the police didn't play it to the press I don't know as I have no experience of a police investigation but I am sure it will come out in the IPPC report.
 
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Fiona said:
I can accept that some people identified with/had empathy for this man. I do not see any reason to believe this was widespread. I certainly do not see any reason to believe that people were apathetic about his capture. It seems to me that he was on the loose with a gun and he had already killed. I think it would be very strange indeed if there was widespread apathy in those circumstances.
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Raoul-Moat-Facebook-Group-Calls-Gunman-Legend-And-Gains-Thousands-Of-Members/Article/201007215663191?lpos=UK_News_Second_Home_Page_Article_Teaser_Region_6&lid=ARTICLE_15663191_Raoul_Moat%3A_Facebook_Group_Calls_Gunman_Legend_And_Gains_Thousands_Of_Members
Nearly 3,000 people have signed up to a memorial Facebook site that refers to dead fugitive Raoul Moat as a "legend".

<snip>

Many of the themes focus on congratulating the gunman for shooting a police officer or blaming the police - often referred to as "scum" - for his death.
Others go as far as blaming his ex girlfriend Samantha Stobbart, who Moat shot twice through the window of her house, for supposedly driving him to desperation.
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There were heaps of threads in the Sky discussion forums where people were saying "Run, Moat, Run!!" and indicating a lot of support for him / anger at the police from last Wednesday onward, but many of those seem to have been removed.
 
Wall to wall coverage of every aspect of Moat's life with precious little in comparison of his victims; I don't find it surprising that some people felt sorry for him.
 
Been in the wilds of Knoydart for a week and missed all this. Seems like a case of a lose- lose situation. Moat was doomed to lose and it seems the police are too.

It now becoms a scramble to see who can make most money by selling his tale of woe to the gutter press. My bet's on the caring brother.
 
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