A question about the political spectrum in the US

[rustypouch]

This is something that I don't know the answer to, and maybe those who are smarter in things political could help me with.

Why are US politics so far to the right when compared to other westernized countries?

Many people denounce Obama as some sort of ultra-liberal. Compared to Canadian politics, which I know best, he is moderately right wing. He is not as far right as our Conservative Party, but he is slightly right of the Liberal party, which as been drifting slightly right. Then there are two Canadian parties (three if you count the Greens) who are farther left.

I don't understand the difference in viewpoints.

Why is Obama considered extreme left by so many in the States, when in other countries he would be centrist, at most?

 

[rwguinn]

Extreme Left: government takes care of everybody, nobody is better/richer/healthier than anybody else )
Far left: Rich people are bad-tax the hell out of 'em
far right : God will take care of us, we don't need government
Extreme right: government is evil, let's shoot 'em if we see 'em.

 

[Darth Rotor]

This is something that I don't know the answer to, and maybe those who are smarter in things political could help me with.

Why are US politics so far to the right when compared to other westernized countries?

Who cares? Since "right" and "left" are somewhere between vague categories, labels, and gross generalizations in the first place, it doesn't matter.

America is not required to agree with "westernized countries." It's founding was from a Westernized country, and Westernized social model, with which it vehemently disagreed.

Why would you be surprised to see continued disagreement? "Western" does not call for "conformity." Indeed, it is in the differences that I find some of the best values, on either side of the pond.

DR

 

[KingMerv00]

Who cares? Since "right" and "left" are somewhere between vague categories, labels, and gross generalizations in the first place, it doesn't matter.

America is not required to agree with "westernized countries." It's founding was from a Westernized country, and Westernized social model, with which it vehemently disagreed.

Why would you be surprised to see continued disagreement? "Western" does not call for "conformity." Indeed, it is in the differences that I find some of the best values, on either side of the pond.

DR

You seem defensive. He asked why. He didn't put a value judgment on it.

 

[bynmdsue]

Because America,that's why.

 

[Darth Rotor]

You seem defensive. He asked why. He didn't put a value judgment on it.

I think it's a stupid question, laced with embedded assumptions. I tried to address a few of them.

Please check out a post by Ziggurat and read his sig. You cannot assume political and social harmony between the US and any bloc of nations, though our foreign policy frequently works toward establishing such with varying success.

Likewise, in re differing PoV's on either side of the pond, a Frenchman might say vive le difference.

 

[KingMerv00]

Please check out a post by Ziggurat and read his sig. You cannot assume political and social harmony between the US and any bloc of nations, though our foreign policy frequently works toward establishing such with varying success.

Who's assuming harmony?

Likewise, in re differing PoV's on either side of the pond, a Frenchman might say vive le difference.

Who wants to see the death of difference?

 

[WildCat]

This is something that I don't know the answer to, and maybe those who are smarter in things political could help me with.

Why are US politics so far to the right when compared to other westernized countries?

You have to define "right" and "left" (and also "westernized").

I've been called both on this very forum, so obviously people's definitions vary widely.

 

[Beerina]

This is something that I don't know the answer to, and maybe those who are smarter in things political could help me with.

Why are US politics so far to the right when compared to other westernized countries?

Because we go to the moon and beat up other westernized countries when necessary, we do not have the "daddy" complex -- we are the daddy.

Now before you pass out from apoplexy, may I quote one BBC/Frontline special that noted that, in spite of what England, France, and so on really thought, when it came to the fate of Europe, the US spoke to the USSR, superpower to superpower.


We aren't to the right. Other westernized countries are to the left. Too far. We are not the defective ones, what with our inventin' **** all the time and stuff.

 

[Tricky]

I think it has a lot to do with the way the country was settled. North America was started as a place where people could "escape oppression" which usually meant that they could go someplace where they could do whatever they wanted. For most of the history of the US, there was always a "frontier" that people could escape to. This engendered a strong streak of libertarianism and unwillingness to be governed by anyone but their own local people. The fact that the US exists as a single country rather than a lot of independent states is damn nearly a miracle that was performed by the founding fathers.

And frontierism also provided some other traits that are often considered conservative, such as the want/need to carry guns. Xenophobia and driving out "people not like you" is also part of the history of the US and is also associated, these days, with conservatism.

Another thing that contributed to our conservatism is the general abundance of many things. In a system with abundance, capitalism is a very workable philosophy. It allows class mobility and does not create an underclass. However, there have been situations where socialism was needed, and when it was needed it was used. The Mayflower Compact is essentially a socialist document. The depression required more sharing of the wealth than we had done before. But overall, abundance of wealth and resources and especially land, have led to a philosophy that "greed is good" that is quite entrenched in the country. And that's because it was good. For a while. How long that will continue to be a viable philosophy will be determined by how wealthy the US remains. If they become a secondary power, they will likely slide back to a less conservative philosophy in order to survive.

 

[kevinquinnyo]

Because America,that's why.

I believe that's pronounced "Murruca"

 

[leftysergeant]

The country was built on the ability of well-armed people of European descent to rip off whatever they wanted from the indigenous peoples. If you couldn't make it in the city, you were always free to go out into the hinterlands and carve out a niche for yourself, and if you didn't make, too bad.

Some people still haven't gotten the message that those days are as long gone as the passenger pigeon.

 

[MG1962]

You have to define "right" and "left" (and also "westernized").

I've been called both on this very forum, so obviously people's definitions vary widely.

Sure that's the easy part

Right - equals economic justice and progress as a way to resolve various social issues

Left - Social justice will resolve economic issues and allow the greatest number of people to progress

 

[leftysergeant]

Sure that's the easy part

Right - equals economic justice and progress as a way to resolve various social issues...

That seems to me an over-simplification. The extrreme right is not that interested in ecconomic justice. That would require an equitible distribution of wealth and living wages for all who make an effort.

[capitalist mode] "Living wage" for a janitor? [/capitalist mode]

 

[Darth Rotor]

The country was built on the ability of well-armed people of European descent to rip off whatever they wanted from the indigenous peoples. If you couldn't make it in the city, you were always free to go out into the hinterlands and carve out a niche for yourself, and if you didn't make, too bad.

B]If you couldn't make it in the city[/B],

There's a load of manure if I ever saw one, but "if you couldn't make it" is true enough.

Some people still haven't gotten the message that those days are as long gone as the passenger pigeon.

Lefty: neat book out, about pre Colombian America. 1491

His take on the passenger pigeon makes more sense than your appeal to folklore.

 

[MG1962]

That seems to me an over-simplification. The extrreme right is not that interested in ecconomic justice. That would require an equitible distribution of wealth and living wages for all who make an effort.

The intention was to keep it simple, otherwise we bog down in senseless semantic debates. I am probably lucky that I have lived in a borderline socialist democray and the USA. So I have seen the best and worst of both left and right politics and societies

 

[geni]

There are a number of problems with trying to do dirrect comparisons.

One is the that the level of nationalism in US politics would result in any dirrect equivalent in many western countries being confined to the lunatic fringe and or the various sucessionist movements.

Localish issues in the US seem to have a bigger impact. Even spain seems to have more coherent national scale politics.

The local politicals factor and the strong drive towards a 2 party system results what would anywhere else be regarded as insanely broad parties. The democracts on the UK spectrum somehow manage to cover everyone from the labour left wing to about the cameronite conservatives.

 

[rustypouch]

Thanks to the few of you who tried to answer seriously without insulting me.

As Kingmerv said, I wasn't saying the outlook in the US is better or worse than elsewhere, I was just curious as to why there is the difference.

There is no need to become rude when the idea of questioning the US comes up.

 

[The Painter]

That seems to me an over-simplification. The extrreme right is not that interested in ecconomic justice. That would require an equitible distribution of wealth and living wages for all who make an effort.

[capitalist mode] "Living wage" for a janitor? [/capitalist mode]

There are janitors on Long Island that make more than $100,000.00 a year. Is that a living wage? Will you write me a poem about it?

 

[KingMerv00]

There is no need to become rude when the idea of questioning the US comes up.

This thread proves you wrong.