Who started both World Wars?

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Uzzy said:
Your obsession over the Lusitania would be more relevant if it wasn't for the two year gap between it's sinking and the American deceleration of war.
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ok..fine.

got any evidence that the Zimmerman Telegram was part of a Zionist plot to get the USA into WW1?

thought not.
 
Thunder said:
ok..fine.

got any evidence that the Zimmerman Telegram was part of a Zionist plot to get the USA into WW1?

thought not.
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Woah there, I was responding to 9/11 guy, not you. ;) His obsession over the Lusitania is what I'm on about.
 
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9/11-investigator said:
Country A delivering war material to country B, which is at war with country C, is a clear act of war of country A towards country C.
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From American Secretary of State Robert Lansing's August 12, 1915 reply to an Austro-Hungarian diplomatic note:

The Government of the United States notes with satisfaction the recognition by the Imperial and Royal Government of the undoubted fact that its attitude with regard to the exportation of arms and ammunition from the United States is prompted by its intention to "maintain the strictest neutrality and conform to the letter with the provisions of international treaties," but is surprised to find the Imperial and Royal Government implying that the observance of the strict principles of the law under the conditions which have developed in the present war is insufficient, and asserting that this Government should go beyond the long recognized rules governing such traffic by neutrals and adopt measures to "maintain an attitude of strict parity with respect to both belligerent parties." . . .

In this connection it is pertinent to direct the attention of the Imperial and Royal Government to the fact that Austria-Hungary and Germany, particularly the latter, have during the years preceding the present war produced a great surplus of arms and ammunition, which they sold throughout the world and especially to belligerents. Never during that period did either of them suggest or apply the principle now advocated by the Imperial and Royal Government.

During the Boer War between Great Britain and the South African republics the patrol of the coast of neighbouring neutral colonies by British naval vessels prevented arms and ammunition reaching the Transvaal or the Orange Free State. The allied republics were in a situation almost identical in that respect with that in which Austria-Hungary and Germany find themselves at the present time.

Yet, in spite of the commercial isolation of one belligerent, Germany sold to Great Britain and the other belligerent, hundreds of thousands of kilos of explosives, gunpowder, cartridges, shot and weapons; and it is known that Austria-Hungary also sold similar munitions to the same purchaser, though in small quantities. [bolding mine]
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17060474efd47d7e6b.jpg
 
SpitfireIX said:
From American Secretary of State Robert Lansing's August 12, 1915 reply to an Austro-Hungarian diplomatic note:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/17060474efd47d7e6b.jpg[/qimg]
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I am not going to read all these links until you have made your point in a few lines first. If your point is interesting than maybe I will read these links.

Just maybe.
 
9/11-investigator said:
Translation: the Jews in the US already owned Wilson (they earlier had him blackmailed in giving the FED to them, a topic for a different thread) and used this influence to push him into war. The Lusitania arms issue (the delivery was possibly a secret deal between American arms manifacturers and the British overnment) was merely used to sell the war to the American public.
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Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that your quote is both accurate and authoritative, and that there was a Jewish lobby that sought to bring America into the war on the Allied side. All this means is that some British Jews acted in their country's national interest, and that some American Jews were politically active in determining the policies of their nation; neither of these is in any way illegal, immoral or even unusual. Yet your argument is that this made all German Jews into traitors, despite the total absence of evidence that they were involved in, or even aware of, any such actions. And this is your justification for the murder of millions of German, Polish, French, Greek, Italian, Russian Jews - that a group of British Jews acted in such a way as to align their personal interests with their national interest.

It seems that, at the heart of all your arguments, is the circular argument that the actions of individual Jews prove the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy, provided that one first accepts the existence of an international Jewish conspiracy. If one starts from the view of the Jewish people as human beings, capable of independent thoughts and actions, none of their actions are in the least suggestive of any such thing. It's only your insistence on thinking of them as a monolithic, groupthinking power bloc that leads you to conclude that that's what they are; ironically, even that reasoning requires you to ignore or discard the overwhlming majority of evidence that makes is clear that no such thing is true.

But, while we're at it, let's apply your logic to a different situation. The Germans had, up till 1915, been treated relatively well by America. We know that America took no action against Germany other than actions that Germany had itself taken in respect of other belligerents, and which therefore could be taken to have Germany's official seal of approval. And yet, in response to this entirely fair treatment, Germany took it upon itself to murder American citizens by sinking their ships without warning, and to collude with another nation to bring about the invasion of America. Surely this is sufficient justification, according to your logic, for America to embark on a program of genocide against the German people, isn't it? Because that's no more than you claim the Jews were planning to do to Germany, and Germany did it first.

Dave
 
9/11-investigator said:
Hans markets himself as a clearvoyant.

Maybe the airconditioner is not working in Bahrain?
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Schwieger had no idea that the ship was carrying arms. They attacked a liner which they ran into by accident at the end of their patrol.
 
Dave Rogers said:
No, you've been suspiciously silent about the Zimmerman Telegram. Almost as if you were trying to ignore a piece of evidence that didn't prove what you wanted it to prove.

Dave
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I never heard of it before. You brought it up, remember. I had a short look at the wikipedia entry and saw some interesting pointers. Then I tried to make you make positive statements about the telegram because I had an intuition as to what you were going to say. Then you stopped elaborating about it, probably afraid as you were to make mistakes.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?

You may use a calculator for this exercise.
Good luck.
 
9/11-investigator said:
I never heard of it before. You brought it up, remember. I had a short look at the wikipedia entry and saw some interesting pointers. Then I tried to make you make positive statements about the telegram because I had an intuition as to what you were going to say. Then you stopped elaborating about it, probably afraid as you were to make mistakes.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?

You may use a calculator for this exercise.
Good luck.
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All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
 
My reference points are one toe into libertarianism, another in 19th century conservatism, post-Christian, post-Holocaust, very Nietzschean, Euro-centric, Archaism (Guillaume Faye). Very anti-modern, Jew-wise, some remote sympathy for Islam (gender roles). Huntington as a self-fulfilling prophecy. Supportive of the EU (not very common for right wingers) but with the aim to transform it from within. Political/military axis Berlin-Moscow-Paris. Gladly bringing about the Death of the West.
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So our little investigator is a Sexist Male Surpemist as well? Why am I not surprised?
 
Dave Rogers said:
I can't add much to Uzzy's explanation of why, according to the US, the US entered the war, except to say that protection of maritime trade has always been a major concern of the USA; they even went to war with us over it once.
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And the first wars the USA declared as a sovereign state: the Barbary Wars, were just about that.

dudalb said:
All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
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Seconded. :D

What was the German government smoking when they transmitted this explosive information by cable? :jaw-dropp Had they forgotten the effect of their own (edited) publication of the Emser Depesche? :rolleyes:
 
9/11-investigator said:
I never heard of it before.

So here the question to you: what according to you is the significance of the Zimmermann telegram for the US war entry?
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you consider yourself a worthy commentator on World history and affairs, and yet you have NEVER heard of the Zimmerman Telegram?????

back to ignore you go.
 
dudalb said:
So our little investigator is a Sexist Male Surpemist as well? Why am I not surprised?
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In your freak lefty progressive world women are deprived of chances of motherhood. In western countries the average child per woman ration is aproaching 1.0.

Dudalbs idea of a 'liberated' women: a 45 year old maiden with 10 'relationships' behind her, without a family, hacking away on a computer.

Don't for a moment assume that the average 'suppressed' muslim women are unhappier than their 'liberated' feminist white counterparts.

But your game is over anyway.
 
dudalb said:
All I can say is somebody who pontificates on World War One and then turns out not to have heard of the Zimmerman Telegram has shot themsleves in the foot big time.
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Have you ever written anything longer than a one line sneer dudalb?

Do you want to say that you know everything there is to know about WW1?

Well here is your chance: enlighten us about the role of the Zimmermann telegram in bringing the US into WW1.
 
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