Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Stacey Grove]

Please, Try again.

I have answered about 90% of questions geared toward me.

Hi, Bluekush.
I understand your point that if you have no income you are not obliged to pay income tax, would I be correct in thinking that you don't have an income?

 

[Wildy]

All the products you are talking about are all from private companies, and none of these products from these "patrolled" roads have to be purchased.

Both of which are irrelevant. Just because the products are from private companies does not mean that they are not benefiting from the roads. Same with "having to buy them". They benefit from cheaper transportation which means they can sell the products at a cheaper rate which, by making them more attractive through price, would increase the amount of money they make.

Just because some people want their product to be cheaper it has nothing to do with others/ and even if they did benefit from what others have done.

Which makes no sense. You have a product that you make for $3 and sell for $6 and then I find a way to make the same product for $1.50 and I sell it for $4, aren't those who want a cheaper product benefiting from my ability to make the product for a lower price?

What you seem to be implying is that it doesn't matter regardless of the outcome.

Being secure is "not" natural just like a clean neighborhood is not natural, if it was there would be no need for security or the need to plant flowers/cut grass/shovel snow.

Clearly you know nothing about nature when it comes to security.

there is the same amount of entanglement in each scenario, but that doesnt mean anyone owes anyone else anything.

Well actually that isn't true. If you go into a store for something you owe to store owners money if you choose to buy that item. If you use roads built by the government you are expected, through taxes, to help pay for those roads.

What is the point of your point? I don't get it.The land is mine,some one tries to take it from me,I don't own a gun so I call the police. What is wrong with that picture?

I think it's that people should be allowed to take your land and use it for their own gain and you can do nothing about it. I mean how dare you get help from an organisation to help you uphold your property rights.

 

[Ladewig]

I want to talk about benefits FOTL derive from being U.S. residents.

Defense against foreign invasion. The FOTL alive in the 1940s benefitted greatly from the U.S. having a sizable standing military to defend against Japanese attacks, yet Freemen believe that they are not required to help support that military in any way. [clarification: I do not want to get side-tracked into possible misuse of military resources - I am talking only about using the military to defend against enemy attack.] This argument assumes that there are forces today that would attack or invade the U.S. if its military were completely disbanded, but I expect all to acknowledge that that assumption is valid.

State prisons. The only way to make sure that murderers, kidnappers, and rapists do not harm communities is to lock them in prison. The fairest way to pay for that prison is to collect a tax from residents of that state. [clarification: I am talking only about violent criminals committing mala in se crimes against innocent victims.]

Even the Libertarians admit that these to expenses are valid enough to levy taxes to pay for their benefits and the libertarians are very much into limiting the oppressive government that impinges on the sovereign rights of the individual (see Libertarian platform approved at most recent political convention)

How would these two benefits be supported if everyone were to adopt FOTL philosophies?

 

[Stacey Grove]

I am ready to shed my ignorance. Let me know where to find the true FOTL websites.

Hi, Ladewig.
I understand that this thread is concerned with American freemen, but there is a UK FOTL website you may find interesting. I should warn you the mod Tamara who has told her followers that on a night out she shoved a glass into a doorman's face, (seems like a nice girl) quickly bans any poster that questions their motives.

http://www.thefreemanleague.com/bulletin/index.php

It is a bunch of people who are attempting to purchase land near Grantham Linconshire and hope to build their own earth covered homes similar to Hobbiton ignoring planning permission because they claim to be exempt from statute law. They also intend to convert the population of Grantham to FOTL style thinking.
It looks like the inhabitants of Grantham don't wish to be converted:

http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/anarchist_plan_for_illegal_community_1_658862

 

[Naddig74]

Hi, Ladewig.
I understand that this thread is concerned with American freemen, but there is a UK FOTL website you may find interesting. I should warn you the mod Tamara who has told her followers that on a night out she shoved a glass into a doorman's face, (seems like a nice girl) quickly bans any poster that questions their motives.

http://www.thefreemanleague.com/bulletin/index.php

It is a bunch of people who are attempting to purchase land near Grantham Linconshire and hope to build their own earth covered homes similar to Hobbiton ignoring planning permission because they claim to be exempt from statute law. They also intend to convert the population of Grantham to FOTL style thinking.
It looks like the inhabitants of Grantham don't wish to be converted:

http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/anarchist_plan_for_illegal_community_1_658862

Wel, they sound like completely lovely people.

 

[Mojo]

Must i requote the DOI again?

If you can find the bit that says that individuals can opt out of any particular law that they don't want to comply with, perhaps you had better.

 

[jargon buster]

It would appear that the moderator freemanjack may even be a rapist???

I beleive Tamara made no attempt to excuse or particularly defend her actions, I read someones honest experience and declared rejection of the person that was able to act that way. I have had monsters in my closet to aquaint myself with, have you? The girl who said 'no' but you heard 'maybe'? The car you carved up when they pushed in? Could have been a fatal crash, but you were angered? This place is for us to make a vision for the future and to reflect on what was wrong with the past.
freemanjack, knight in dented grubby armour.

http://www.thefreemanleague.com/bulletin/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=322&start=20
JB/Asky

 

[Mojo]

Alter or Abolish. No one has to leave the land of the free.

"Alter or abolish" is not the same as opting out.

 

[dafydd]

Hi, Bluekush.
I understand your point that if you have no income you are not obliged to pay income tax, would I be correct in thinking that you don't have an income?

Do you pay tax in the States when you're on welfare?

 

[tsig]

i proofread the thought and ideas, however i don't check every letter and punctuation mark

Punctuation marks and letters are the way we communicate thoughts and ideas. A letter out of place changes the meaning of a word and a Punctuation mark can change the meaning of a phrase the meaning of a phrase can change the meaning of a paragraph and the meaning of a paragraph changes the meaning of the whole message so for want of a Punctuation mark the idea is lost.

 

[Elizabeth I]

ROFL. Being "released due to lack of evidence, illegal searches, etc." means that either (a) the prosecution failed to make its case ("lack of evidence"); or (b) did not make its case in approved fashion ("illegal searches"). Neither shows that the laws were unjust and unconstitutional.

It still doesn't mean that the laws are not unjust and unconstitutional.

No, but it DOES mean that you did not show how the laws are unjust and unconstitutional. The prosecution's having done a bad job says nothing at all about the law under which a case was originally prosecuted.

So don't expect unjust and unconstitutional to know they are unjust and unconstitutional.

I'm not sure what you mean here, due to your pride in your lack of proofreading, but I'm going to assume you mean "don't expect unjust and unconstitutional laws to know..."

Then I'm going to point out that, as non-living items, laws cannot know anything. Do you expect your teakettle, pillow and dining table to know anything?

No you just have very poor cignitive [] abilities, end of story.

As far as regarding my grammar, Ive stated numerous time I barely proofread. There are many replies i have to make and I dont care if i make a mistake here and there (which everyone finds the need to point out). It is alot easier to find mistakes when i make 10 posts to your 1 in this thread.

Here's something I wrote in another thread to another poster who said much the same thing as you did:

If you write correctly people will be more inclined to give consideration, if not credence, to your remarks. You may find that unfair, but that's the way it is.

Do people occasionally make typos? Of course. Do people occasionally leave out punctuation marks, or use them where they're not needed? Of course. Mistakes are unavoidable. However, educated people do their best to avoid mistakes.

Others with a greater accumulation of belligerent ignorance say, "I am how I am. Take me how you find me. You know what I meant so I don't have to do it right." Sometimes people know what you meant; to judge from remarks by others besides me in this thread, very often they don't. And even if they do understand you, because of your ignorant writing style they are often much more likely to dismiss your thoughts without further consideration.

It's your choice. It's a free country. Nobody says you have to write like you have had at least a basic education, but if you don't you may expect to be treated like a buffoon.

Now, if you don't care about making a credible case for your philosophy, that's one thing. But in that case, what are you doing here? Why are you bothering to reply to anyone in this thread? Why haven't you taken your little plants and your gro-lite and struck out for the wilderness where a man can live like he wants to? (Oh, sorry, the gro-lite won't work out there without electricity, so you'll have to depend on plain old sunshine.)

 

[tsig]

If you can find the bit that says that individuals can opt out of any particular law that they don't want to comply with, perhaps you had better.

He might also want to understand that the DOI is not and never has been part of the constitution. It was political propaganda written to inflame the populace and it worked quite well for that but it was not intended as an instrument of government.

 

[dafydd]

How would these two benefits be supported if everyone were to adopt FOTL philosophies?

The chance of us all going collectively insane is a remote one.

 

[Naddig74]

It would appear that the moderator freemanjack may even be a rapist???


http://www.thefreemanleague.com/bulletin/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=322&start=20
JB/Asky

Yep. Really lovely people.

 

[Mojo]

He might also want to understand that the DOI is not and never has been part of the constitution.

I very much doubt that he does.

 

[jargon buster]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122305&page=5

I don't think so.
The object was to claim his soveriegnty and live freely unless he breaches the peace. he stayed honourable, regadless of the nicking! I think that's what the object. He is showing the system of law we operate under in this country is unfair. Pointing out it's probelms so they can be understood and hopefully corrected. Good on him I say!

I;m quite sure he knew getting nicked was a distinc probability.... er possibility.

this was published as proof FMOTL works
Numpty got himself arrested and this proves the law is wrong??????
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ben+lowrey+arrested&aq=f
its win ,win for these guys whatever happens.

asky/JB

 

[Cuddles]

Does the Retard know hes a Retard?

Apparently not.

 

[Mojo]

Hoist by his own retard?

 

[LightinDarkness]

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123032

The "Freeman on the land" discussing how to commit government welfare fraud. So interesting that they decline to consent to every possible tax or regulation, but vehemently defend their right to take cash benefits from the government through every illegal means they can think of. The explanation, of course, is that obviously theres a massive conspiracy to keep down the unemployed, and so what better way to stick it to THE SYSTEM than to commit fraud and claim benefits that you are no longer entitled to?

Freeman on the Dole

 

[Bluekush623]

I, for one, would like you to explain how disengaging from government fights government corruption?

It doesn't necessarily end government corruption but if you stop supporting the abusive relationship you will no longer be abused (at your consent).