Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Akhenaten]

ETA:It doesn't work; here is the actual link

All you need to put between the [yt] and [/yt] tags is the alphanumeric sequence after the "v=" bit.


ie.

Your link above, which is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFoN_pQ21L8&feature=related​

becomes:

[yt]tFoN_pQ21L8[/yt]​

and is rendered as:

​

 

[kmortis]

huh....this thread IS educational after all.

 

[Akhenaten]

Geeze, keep it quiet or we'll never get rid of the damned thing.

 

[DOC]

...Most of the religions you listed generally do not practice evangelism, which appears to be the only reason you post to this forum. Most Jews and Buddhists could not possibly care less if other people believe differently from them. "Live and let live" could be the motto of either of these religions, so to have a follower babble on and on about the "evidence" for the truth of their religion would actually be evidence that they are out of the mainstream for their professed belief-system....

bolding added

So it would seem you're saying the philosophy of most Jews and Buddhists is "I got mine" (that is knowledge of the ultimate truth) and if others don't have this knowledge of the ultimate truth that I possess, who cares, that's their tough luck.

 

[Simon39759]

All you need to put between the [yt] and [/yt] tags is the alphanumeric sequence after the "v=" bit.
ie.
Your link above, which is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFoN_pQ21L8&feature=related​

becomes:

[yt]tFoN_pQ21L8[/yt]​

and is rendered as:

​

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/209954b7bb91e6c88e.gif[/qimg]

Thank you good sir. I learned something new.
Plus, my post is funnier that way. Not funny yet; but funnier

 

[carlitos]

Again, when DOC starts a post with "So" it's a sure sign he's going to misstate someone's argument.

Since when is religion "ultimate truth," DOC? Especially when you can't provide truthy evidence for it?

 

[Akhenaten]

...Most of the religions you listed generally do not practice evangelism, which appears to be the only reason you post to this forum. Most Jews and Buddhists could not possibly care less if other people believe differently from them. "Live and let live" could be the motto of either of these religions, so to have a follower babble on and on about the "evidence" for the truth of their religion would actually be evidence that they are out of the mainstream for their professed belief-system....

bolding added

So it would seem you're saying the philosophy of most Jews and Buddhists is "I got mine" (that is knowledge of the ultimate truth) and if others don't have this knowledge of the ultimate truth that I possess, who cares, that's their tough luck.

my bolding


Ignoring for a second that you're completely off topic again (still), do you have anything resembling evidence for this extraordinary assertion?

 

[Simon39759]

bolding added

So it would seem you're saying the philosophy of most Jews and Buddhists is "I got mine" (that is knowledge of the ultimate truth) and if others don't have this knowledge of the ultimate truth that I possess, who cares, that's their tough luck.

I think the Jews' attitude has a lot to do with the: 'Have they stop hitting us? Let's not bring too much attention to us just yet...' attitude...
Judaism was also, on occasion, evangelistic.

Budhism? Budhism, as a whole, don't really care, I think. After all, they do not have the nasty little blackmail of hell. The worst thing that can happen is for the unbeliever to miss out on the truth and need one more go around. Then again, if they do, it was their fate to begin with so, there is little point on fighting it...


(Both of these description, of course, were painted with a ten mile long brush and certainly not apply to all believers of these faith).

 

[Rincewind]

Hi DOC,

This is addressed directly to you, and I’d appreciate it if you’d respond.
In my late teens – about three hundred years ago - I was pretty religious – brought up as a Presbyterian, confirmed, helped out in the Sunday School and church events, joined the youth club and the amateur dramatic society – in other words, quite a model Christian.

However, a few things happened (I’ll not derail the thread with details), and I drifted away.

A couple of years ago my mother died after eight years of Alzheimers. Now she’d been the real church-goer in the family, so at the time I felt very angry that a so-called loving God could have treated anybody in such a way. Then, at the office Christmas party soon after her death (perfect timing, too!) I was swapping humorous insults with friends, when I was accused of being an Atheist.

This dichotomy amused and interested me, so I decided to do some research, therefore ever since I’ve been reading books, and visiting websites from all sides of the spectrum.

I’ve been looking to see if I’d abandoned Christianity unfairly – giving it a second chance as it were.

I have to confess that I’ve found more constructive criticism, and less bad manners and insults from avowed Atheists than from believers. I’ve even found some quite scary stuff in “Fundies say the darndest things”, and a website praising the 10 commandments – can’t recall the name of that one.

Of course, a bunch of facts confirming the accuracy of the New Testament could go a long way to move me away from the drift towards Atheism – I suggest to you that I’m probably one of the people you should be aiming to influence.

But what’s actually happened?

Absolutely nothing that you’ve written has been of any use to me whatsoever.

Everything you’ve written has been comprehensively, eruditely and interestingly destroyed.

I’m actually in awe of many of the posters here – sadly, you’re not even close to rising higher than leaving me with a feeling of indifference.

Like I said – it’s a great shame, and I wish I could be reporting otherwise – all you’ve managed to prove to me is that there is NO evidence.

 

[DOC]

...Judaism was also, on occasion, evangelistic...

On those occasions when Judaism was evangelistic do you think they were wrong in evangelizing?

 

[Akhenaten]

On those occasions when Judaism was evangelistic do you think they were wrong in evangelizing?

They most certainly would have been if they were doing it here, just as you are.

They'd quite likely have been reported for spamming, just as you have.

 

[kmortis]

On those occasions when Judaism was evangelistic do you think they were wrong in evangelizing?

There's nothing wrong with evangilization, that's just advertisement.

What is wrong is unsubstantiated claims. If you're going to advertise, make sure that your product can stand up under scrutiny. Yours can't.

 

[Cleon]

bolding added

So it would seem you're saying the philosophy of most Jews and Buddhists is "I got mine" (that is knowledge of belief in the ultimate truth) and if others don't have this knowledge of belief in the ultimate truth that I possess believe in, who cares, that's their tough luck.

Fixed that for you. You're welcome.

First, Jews and Buddhists don't really have that whole "believe in my religion or you will go to Hell for all eternity" thing that y'all Christians have. (And why yes, this does say better things about Buddhism and Judaism than it does about Christianity.)

Second, most intelligent religious people recognize that there is as much evidence for their particular faith as there is for another one.

 

[Simon39759]

On those occasions when Judaism was evangelistic do you think they were wrong in evangelizing?

*Shrug*
Not really. I am an atheist so, for me, evangelism pretty much consist of people trying to convince each other to trade an set of unsubstantiated and often silly beliefs for another set of unsubstantiated and often silly beliefs.

That being said; since I moved to Mississippi; I attended a couple of Baptists church parties and, each time, got seriously creeped-out by the under-harmed evangelism. The conversations left me with the clear feeling that they were only interested in finding angles to bring me into the fold, seriously culty.
So; that was unpleasant, but not 'Wrong', after all, they were just trying to spare me an eternity of all-loving torture...

So, to answer your question, no. They were wrong in that sense that there is (probably) no God and so the point of view they propagated was (probably) incorrect but evangelism, in itself is not morally wrong.
Now, forced evangelism; evangelism at the point of the sword as have been practiced, mainly by Christianity, yes, that's evil. The murder and torture and threat of such are evil...

 

[Akhenaten]

First, Jews and Buddhists don't really have that whole "believe in my religion or you will go to Hell for all eternity" thing that y'all Christians have. (And why yes, this does say better things about Buddhism and Judaism than it does about Christianity.)

I've never really given this as much thought as I might have, but reading it just now I can't help but realise the truth of it.

Thank you for a mini-epiphany.

 

[Elizabeth I]

I think - someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I know - that Buddhists also believe that it is the height of spiritual arrogance to go around telling other people how to live their lives or attain enlightenment. If I understand correctly, the Buddhist belief is that each person has his or her own path to travel, and it is no one else's business to tell other people how to get where they need to go.

If asked, they will share their beliefs; if not, they will not impose those beliefs on you.

 

[Hokulele]

I think - someone will correct me if I'm wrong, I know - that Buddhists also believe that it is the height of spiritual arrogance to go around telling other people how to live their lives or attain enlightenment. If I understand correctly, the Buddhist belief is that each person has his or her own path to travel, and it is no one else's business to tell other people how to get where they need to go.

If asked, they will share their beliefs; if not, they will not impose those beliefs on you.

This is basically true, but like all large groups of people, there are some within the group who have slightly differing beliefs. It would not surprise me in the least if there were Buddhists who did evangelize. Same with those of Jewish faith. However, there is nothing specifically in the faiths themselves that require it, it would be a personal thing.

And regarding the whole "I got mine" oddity posted by DOC, that is most definitely not the perspective of mainstream Buddhism or Judaism. The contract between YHWH and the Jewish people is one of equal burden. "Having mine" for a Jew is a serious responsibility, not necessarily a reward, and certainly not something seen from such a selfish point of view. Sure, there may be a reward at the time of resurrection for one who has kept the covenant, but to call it a feeling of "I got mine" is a rather bizarre twisting of Jewish faith. I think most Jews would see it more as "I was given mine, now I have to demonstrate I deserve it, every single day of my life." Cleon can correct me if I am wrong (as happens from time to time).

For a Buddhist, I would say it is more of a "I am learning how to get mine, but I won't be so rude to assume the same lessons have to apply to everyone. If you are interested, I am happy to share what I have learned and I hope you learn how to get yours too."

But is says volumes about how DOC views his faith in that he assumes people only come to religion for selfish reasons.

 

[joobz]

But is says volumes about how DOC views his faith in that he assumes people only come to religion for selfish reasons.

Going one step farther, it also seems quite telling that DOC things all religions center on a concept of cosmic payoff that is similar to Christian religion.

The whole heaven/hell dichotomy is less meaningful when you don't believe in a heaven, let alone a hell.

 

[amb]

Bottled Water (split from: Welcome thread)

Astral War​

On the open-ended JREF Forum Naughtiness Scale, you're a .0003, or 'Goody Two-shoes'.

I don't think you're even trying.

Oh. Okay, thanks.

Once you get to AAH, towards the top right will be a link "Search this Forum". Click on that for the drop down, then click on Advanced Search. You can type your nick (or anyone's) in the "Search by User Name" field to find your naughty posts.

If you don't have any posts in there, you just aren't trying hard enough.*

What do you think of the "evidence"** that DOC has shared with us?***











* This opinion is not shared by JREF moderators.

** Anecdotes, circular logic, fallacies, falsehoods.

*** To keep this post on topic and avoid the naughty corner.

What evidence? The only evidence I see is that he has been infected by the " god virus. " The only cure for that, and for most, there is no cure. But for some who can be rational it can only be cured by immersing oneself in science.

 

[amb]

On those occasions when Judaism was evangelistic do you think they were wrong in evangelizing?

Evangelizing for any religion is a waste of precious time that could be used elsewhere in making it a better world for our children and our children's children.
Besides, life is too short to waste it evangelizing for something that's not there.