Private militias are criminal gangs.

[defaultdotxbe]

The courts blow a fuse when the cops start hauling in even the obviously illegal ones like the Crips. We just do not have the number of law enforcement officers it would take to catch them all. Add to that the fact that the ones that escape the first sweep would probably start a wave of terrorism unseen since the Ukranians realised how badly they had been had by the Nazis.

The militias are still illegal and, with idiots like Angle spouting off about how they might be the only solution left to correct the "Harry Reid problem," they may very well be the cause of untold suffering in the near future.

The unorganised militia is just the body of persons who can be brought into the service of their states should the need arise. When the need arises, they will, supposedly, be trained in the UCMJ, codes of conduct, chain of command and such subjects in addition to the normal tactical training. They are not to be trained to the standards of dirtbags who refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the only body authorised to train them. The end result would be an absence of persons suitable to answer the call when the unorganised militia needs to be called into service.

so then by de facto they are legal because its easier than enforcing the laws that say they are illegal?

 

[leftysergeant]

so then by de facto they are legal because its easier than enforcing the laws that say they are illegal?[/QUOTNo. They are still illegal and worse than useless, because thise members of the unorganised militia who come under their sway are rendered useless to society should it be neccessary to call out the unoirganised militia.

If they play any role in the case of public unrest, it would be more likely that they would be acting out that unrest to the detriment of public order.

These are not rational people, for the most part. (And that is as much as I can under-state it.)

 

[Neally]

The courts blow a fuse when the cops start hauling in even the obviously illegal ones like the Crips.

Second mention of known gangs being associated with militas. Previous evidence requested and ignored. Evasion noted.

The militias are still illegal and, with idiots like Angle spouting off about how they might be the only solution left to correct the "Harry Reid problem,"

Still no evidence that a majority of states and the federal make them illegal. Multiple references to Angle espousing/endorsing armed resistance. Previous evidence requested and ignored. Evasion noted.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Seriously, what's the difference between the Chicago Outfit, the Tea Party 3rd Colonial Line Infantry of Illinois (or whatever those idiots call themselves), and the City of Chicago itself?

The first and last ones on your list really exist.

The last one on your list, admits they really exist.

I too hate Illinois Nazis, but I haven't seen any for a long long time.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

..

 

[Rogue1stclass]

For the purpose of education, not to overthrow any authority should they decide that government has become corrupt.

Must be some dynamite drugs avaiable where you are. I have not met anyone in An Tir who would be at all dangerous if the Republicants and Libertarians got so badly trounced that they wound up trailing the Communists. Most of them are really bright, but a little hedonistic.

Funny, I go to an SCA regional event every year and have had many drunken conversations with ate up geeks about exactly these things.

Most people in the SCA are really nice and reasonably sane, but there is a strong undercurrent in the organization that really wants to be thought of as dangerous and important. This undercurrent loves the idea that the SCA is actually a militia group to the point that there is a persistant (but unsubstantiated) rumor that the group has been infiltrated by the FBI because it is not only a militia group, but the largest militia group in the country.

The Washington State Militia di violate a law just by existing. And those freaks really meant it. They are NOT hobbyists.

First Ammendment rights do not include screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Do educate yourself on that point. They are, in that regard, no different from the Sturmabteilung.

For the record, the reason that yelling "fire" in a crowded theater isn't protected by the First Amendment isn't because it's harmful, it's because it's harmful and makes no political statement.

Once again, it's not me that needs to educated here.

But it is ursurping the authority of the state to train the unorganized militia into a force which will, when needed, not turn their guns on the governor rather than on the white nationalists who have decided that this is to be part of the whites-only "homeland."

What?

Are you saying that only the state has the authority to train people in small unit tactics and marksmenship? Or are you saying that a group's political speech limits their rights?

Please restate this without the insane conspiracy theory so that I can understand the point, would you?

 

[leftysergeant]

Are you saying that only the state has the authority to train people in small unit tactics and marksmenship?

Yes, if you mean training them as a fighting unit. Firearms instruction as a stand-alone skill set is not a problem. Teaching people that it is okay to take up arms and put an end to the repeated election of liberals is quite another matter.

Or are you saying that a group's political speech limits their rights?

I am saying that they have no right to conspire to enforce their political views with armed violence.

Please restate this without the insane conspiracy theory so that I can understand the point, would you?

The militia movement is training for one purpose only, and that is to overthrow the government if the government does not come around to the militia nubars' way of thinking. They have no right to prepare to overthrow the government selected by rational people in the elections. They have no right to enforce their views on racial purity. They have no right to impose their religious views at the point of a gun.

They have no right to keep it secret from the government if they are planning to do so and training patriots to so use force while believing that they are fighting for another cause.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Yes, if you mean training them as a fighting unit. Firearms instruction as a stand-alone skill set is not a problem. Teaching people that it is okay to take up arms and put an end to the repeated election of liberals is quite another matter.

so theres no case where the first may be true but not the second?

also, you tip your hand with the "of liberals" part, you're not opposed to militias, you're opposed to groups who disagree with you politically

 

[Rogue1stclass]

Yes, if you mean training them as a fighting unit. Firearms instruction as a stand-alone skill set is not a problem. Teaching people that it is okay to take up arms and put an end to the repeated election of liberals is quite another matter.

Small unit tactics can have any number of applications from the above mentioned re-enactor societies (as well as others) to team sports such as air soft and paintball, to the more esoteric clubs like the zombie defense clubs that are currently springing up all over the country. The government obviously has no monopoly on it, nor does it even claim one.

And, as far as I can tell, it's not illegal to teach much of anything. Teaching that it is okay to forcably overthrow an election result you don't like would be factually wrong, but there's no law against being wrong. Now, should they actually try to take up arms and overthrow an election, that's a different story.

I am saying that they have no right to conspire to enforce their political views with armed violence.

Funny, what you said here is absolutely true. However, when you conspire to do something, you aren't talking about doing it, you aren't even preparing for doing it, you are actively taking steps towards that end.

It's that whole "presumption of innocence" thing.

The militia movement is training for one purpose only, and that is to overthrow the government if the government does not come around to the militia nubars' way of thinking. They have no right to prepare to overthrow the government selected by rational people in the elections. They have no right to enforce their views on racial purity. They have no right to impose their religious views at the point of a gun.

They have no right to keep it secret from the government if they are planning to do so and training patriots to so use force while believing that they are fighting for another cause.

The rest of this post is conspiracy theory nonsense. I understand that you think the militia movement is some kind of pawns dancing at the strings of a largely mythical white nationalist movement. What I don't understand is how you think these white nationists are going to control the rest of the movement once they strike their first blow for whatever you think they are going to do.

The whole point of the militia movment is to be ready when "the government" comes for them, not the other way 'round. Sure, it's a crazy fantasy, but it's exactly that, a fantasy. If these white nationalists decide to get squirrely, they'll have as much luck getting the SCA or zombie defense clubs to join in.

 

[MaGZ]

Actually, the KKK, Black Panthers and the Crips and Bloods are all or were all at one time or another, militias. That's part of the problewm. They cange how they identify themselves just to keep enough of as toe inside the coverage of the law not to get hauled away at once. The law can't always keep up with their changing operational doctrine.

The Crips and Bloods were never militias.

 

[leftysergeant]

The Crips and Bloods were never militias.

Their command structure and training doctrine area lot looser, but the idea is the same. The homies get together to preserve their way of life against the outsiders by brute force and fire power, living off the ecconomic grid in tough times, ready to die for each other as need be.Not much daylight between them, really.

 

[Neally]

Their command structure and training doctrine area lot looser, but the idea is the same.

Back peddle noted. Oh and the "idea" is not the same.

 

[Cobalt]

Their command structure and training doctrine area lot looser, but the idea is the same. The homies get together to preserve their way of life against the outsiders by brute force and fire power, living off the ecconomic grid in tough times, ready to die for each other as need be.Not much daylight between them, really.

You've no idea what you're talking about, a feeling not wholly unfamiliar to you.

 

[leftysergeant]

Back peddle noted. Oh and the "idea" is not the same.

Sure, the idea is the same. The government is an enemy occupying force there to suppress the people in the poorer neighborhoods, hauling them off on the slightest excuse, sometimes using lethal force casually. So the gangs decide that they will regulate their own neighborhoods. Same thing.

 

[GreNME]

Militias are just wrong.

If Hugo Chavez introduced them the certain posters here would be going apoplectic.

 

[Neally]

Sure, the idea is the same. The government is an enemy occupying force there to suppress the people in the poorer neighborhoods, hauling them off on the slightest excuse, sometimes using lethal force casually. So the gangs decide that they will regulate their own neighborhoods. Same thing.

Right, like cats and dogs are the same thing since they are both animals. How's that evidence that that the Crips and Bloods, et al. are all or were all at one time or another, militias coming along? I mean other than the silly claim that street gangs = militias. Oh and don't forget the evidence that militias are illegal on a federal level and in the majority of states.

 

[DC]

isn't every Militia public? and not private?

 

[leftysergeant]

isn't every Militia public? and not private?

The militia, as it existed when this country was founded, was a function of local government.

There are now whackadoodles forming "militias" under their own authority for purposes counter to the public order, many of them with the stated purpose of overturning the government if government, in their opinion, "goes too far down its current path."

This is to say that they will overturn the votes of their fellow citizens.

Then there are those that just declare themselves outside the authority of the law.

The differences between them and any street gang is mostly a matter of degrees of organization and readiness to kill to control their neighborhoods.

The Crips and Bloods know that they are subject to arrest and that what they are doing is illegal, but they feel that it is the only way that they will survive in a hostile environment.

TRhe nutbars that follow lunatics like Angle think that they are patriots.

They all have in common a deep-seated hatred for government and utter depravity.

 

[Neally]

TRhe nutbars that follow lunatics like Angle think that they are patriots.

Yet another reference to Angle with no evidence.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

I am saying that they have no right to conspire to enforce their political views with armed violence.

American Revolution = "Whackadoodle" Central. Got it.

The militia movement is training for one purpose only, and that is to overthrow the government if the government does not come around to the militia nubars' way of thinking.

Evidence?

Also, how long do you suppose they'll wait? I mean, it's been a few decades already...