Survival

[Kumar]

There is a continuous line between pure and lethal parsitism and perfect symbiosis. We can name it and catergorize it as we please, but it makes no difference. Each species of organism does what it does for its own sake. A symbiotic relationship is simply one where both species have managed to get a fair trade.

I think the categories you quote are a little useless because more often than not, we are not able to place a given relationship so precisely in a category.

Hans

Sorry it is detailed definitions;

The term symbiosis (from the Greek: σύν syn "with"; and βίωσις biosis "living") commonly describes close and often long-term interactions between different biological species. The term was first used in 1879 by the German mycologist Heinrich Anton de Bary, who defined it as "the living together of unlike organisms."[1][2] The definition of symbiosis is in flux, and the term has been applied to a wide range of biological interactions. The symbiotic relationship may be categorized as mutualistic, commensal, or parasitic in nature.[3][4] Others define it more narrowly, as only those persistent relationships from which both organisms benefit, in which case it would be synonymous with mutualism[1][5][6][7].

Symbiotic relationships include those associations in which one organism lives on another (ectosymbiosis, such as mistletoe), or where one partner lives inside the other (endosymbiosis, such as lactobacilli and other bacteria in humans or zooxanthelles in corals). Symbiotic relationships may be either obligate, i.e., necessary for the survival of at least one of the organisms involved, or facultative, where the relationship is beneficial but not essential for survival of the organisms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis

Till yesyerday I was also misunderstanding (evidance: yesyerday I mentioned in one post that we can improve when we shall develop symbiotic relationship. I was thinking, how to mention it accurately.

 

[Kumar]

Sure. There can be one where they only just survive. And anything in between.

Hans

I shall remember it & make use when required.

 

[Mashuna]

Sorry please cooperate.

Should it not be possible that some biochemical changes may occur in human body on human emotions and motives change? If possible, these changes can also reach to pathogens & cancer cells and make them to behave accordingly?

We wouldn't expect this to be the case, and there is no evidence to suggest this to be true. In other words, no.

 

[Kumar]

Well, I hope perhaps I may shed some small light on the subject at hand for you, after all some species live (to us) very short lives (like perhaps some insects do), and some much longer, (giant redwoods etc).

Thanks again. It is sun-light not small light.

but they all used that common demoninator, breeding, in order to exist to start with and to continue to exist, as a species..

I think..Instinct.

It is however a more human concept that a long life is a good life. (not too sure what "good" means here but hey, lets move on), and that is undestandable from the human acheivements in promoting life longevity not just for us , the capability of humans to extend (read fix fatal biological problems) other organisms lives, like taking your pet to the vet.

Does your cat want to live longer, and therefore it makes some desicion to go for that vaccination?
Of course not, the human makes that descision, not the cat.

The cat has no real understanding of those type of human, and to the cat, ungraspable abstract (human) concepts.

Yes it can be taken purely as a terminology--Human Concept. It also make deep sense "It is however a more human concept that a long life is a good life. (not too sure what "good" means here)."

From our human perspective it appears so, using human values, and human understanding of giving up life so that others, hey.. even offspring, might live longer.

Can't say for sure esp in view of so thought--"nature balances itself". ..lifestyle & environmental insults increasing, nature's imbalances prefered, antibiotic resistance, modern diseases etc.can matter.

But the cell themselves can have no real understanding or choice in this, as simply put, that is the difference between humans and cells.



not really, for themselves , to us yes, for them, no, they not only cannot plan, they cannot understand what planning is.....lol

I am still trying to better understand it--either direct or via environmental changes.

goodo, only here to help and all that....

regards

Yes, helping much. Best regards & wishes.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Sorry it is detailed definitions;



Till yesyerday I was also misunderstanding (evidance: yesyerday I mentioned in one post that we can improve when we shall develop symbiotic relationship. I was thinking, how to mention it accurately.

Typing! Make an effort, continuously.

I know it is a definition. Use it if you will, but it doesn't change anything. It is just semantics.

Hans

 

[Kumar]

We wouldn't expect this to be the case, and there is no evidence to suggest this to be true. In other words, no.

Someone thought; "if one dig pit for others he can fall in it himself", our cells/system may learn whatever we thought & persued--killing, killing learning by cells so may kill us, doubting/disbelief; learn doubt & disbeliving us (somewhat a reason to big problems). Sweatness: probably diabetes.):

 

[Kumar]

Typing! Make an effort, continuously.

I know it is a definition. Use it if you will, but it doesn't change anything. It is just semantics.

Hans

Ok, thanks for correcting me.

 

[Mashuna]

Someone thought; "if one dig pit for others he can fall in it himself", our cells/system may learn whatever we thought & persued--killing, killing learning by cells so may kill us, doubting/disbelief; learn doubt & disbeliving us (somewhat a reason to big problems). Sweatness: probably diabetes.):

Is it just me, or is this incoherent even by Kumar's usual standards?

 

[Soapy Sam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa

Cancer cells are potentially immortal.


Kumar- Imagine a factory. Normally it makes car parts. These are sold to a car maker. This pays the wages of the factory workers and keeps the factory running successfully.

But an error occurs on the production line. The parts being produced have holes drilled in the wrong place. They are faulty. The car maker does not want these parts, so they pile up in the storerooms and the yard outside the factory. Everywhere there are trucks, rooms, crates, full of useless parts. No money is coming in. The factory goes broke and shuts down.

That's cancer.

The quality control inspectors on a factory production line are like the human immune system. They spot manufacture errors and fix the machinery.

The cancer cells in a human body reproduce within that body only. Thay have no way to reproduce outside that body unless they can affect the germline (sex) cells.
It is certain that this does happen- some DNA contains genes which are likely to cause cancer. But so long as they cause cancer in old people (or fail to prevent cancer in old people) they have time to be reproduced in the bodies of young people.

So of course cancer causing genes can be reproduced from generation to generation- but the actual cancer cells can't, any more than actual toenail cells can. The only cells that reproduce from generation to generation are sex cells. Google the difference between Meiosis and Mitosis.

Other pathogenic organisms- like cold viruses Do reproduce and move from one host to another quite freely. The only viruses that kill their hosts very fast- like Ebola- are viruses which have only recently adapted to affect that host. Ebola is not- until recently - a human virus. A virus that had co-evolved with humans for thousands of generations- such as the many cold viruses- is very unlikely to kill the host at all, because doing so would limit their own success.

 

[Mojo]

Someone thought; "if one dig pit for others he can fall in it himself", our cells/system may learn whatever we thought & persued--killing, killing learning by cells so may kill us, doubting/disbelief; learn doubt & disbeliving us (somewhat a reason to big problems). Sweatness: probably diabetes.):

Cells are not sentient.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Neither are some people.

 

[Sledge]

Is Kumar getting his information on human biology from the movie Osmosis Jones?

 

[Paul2]

Sorry please cooperate.

Should it not be possible that some biochemical changes may occur in human body on human emotions and motives change? If possible, these changes can also reach to pathogens & cancer cells and make them to behave accordingly?

Only hypothetically. No one has ever observed this happening with cancer.

Is anything possible? Sure, I could be the Queen of England.

 

[paximperium]

What the hell?

 

[Kumar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa

Cancer cells are potentially immortal....

Other pathogenic organisms- like cold viruses... QUOTE]

Hello Soapy Sam,

Thanks for good explaination.

There is one thought. How cancer cells are immortal. whether they are stem cells or normal cells became cancerous which don't obey body signals to suicide? If later, can it mean that if we take our cells out of body & keep under lab culture they can also be immortal?

About pathogens, can it be possible that few or most pathogens unless epidemic infect us due to some imbalance/instability in body-- some biochemical imbalance and that imbalance got treated due to it?

 

[Kumar]

Cells are not sentient.

Yes that is bit unclear to me. How they interact?

 

[Kumar]

Only hypothetically. No one has ever observed this happening with cancer.

Is anything possible? Sure, I could be the Queen of England.

However exogenous Carcinogens do effect normal cells becoming cancer cells. Is this not environmental effect?

 

[Kumar]

Is Kumar getting his information on human biology from the movie Osmosis Jones?

???

 

[paximperium]

There is one thought. How cancer cells are immortal. whether they are stem cells or normal cells became cancerous which don't obey body signals to suicide?

What is the question?

If later, can it mean that if we take our cells out of body & keep under lab culture they can also be immortal?

No. Only HeLa is known to be able to be immortal.

About pathogens, can it be possible that few or most pathogens unless epidemic infect us due to some imbalance/instability in body-- some biochemical imbalance and that imbalance got treated due to it?

What is the question?

However exogenous Carcinogens do effect normal cells becoming cancer cells. Is this not environmental effect?

How is this relevant to your original statement?

 

[Sledge]

???

!!!