Penn & Teller on Cheerleaders

[BPScooter]

I've heard that in certain *hmm* "southern" countries, the despicable pursuit of Cat Juggling is now reaching status. FIFA (Feline International Flingers Assoc.) is just about ready to present their 17-point judging standard with the support of NIKE (Nicely Introducing Kitties to Ether, Inc.) and ADIDAS (Altogether Darned Interested Dudes in Animal Sportsmanship, Inc.).

OK, that wasn't all that funny, but it was worth a try. The original take was from Steve Martin, in case you didn't get the cat juggling reference.

 

[BPScooter]

Please forgive, I didn't realize the extent of this madness:

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cat_Juggling

 

[TraneWreck]

...
Apparently the boys thought it was BS that cheerleading wasn't a "sport" under Title IX.

Apparently the boys also thought it was BS that cheerleading was effectively under the control of a for-profit monopoly called Varsity (and its subsidiaries).

...

I didn't see the show, so I can't comment on what P & T said, but my problem with cheerleading seems to be the opposite.

Basically "cheerleading" as a sport was created by athletic departments cynically attempting to sneak around Title IX requirements. Instead of funding actual women's sports, they created a sport out of the cute girls that cheer at football games. In so doing, they created an insanely dangerous activity that is some sort of deviant combination of gymnastics, dance, and Cirque du Soleil.

Instead of funding soccer, softball, volleyball or another actual sport, money-grubbing AD's can cross one sport of the requirement list by just having this parasitic entity on their football team.

 

[sthomson]

Apparently the boys thought it was BS that cheerleading wasn't a "sport" under Title IX.

Cheerleading is considered to be a Title IX sport in over 50% of states, so this criticism is a strawman. Surely such a fine, upstanding libertarian as Penn Jillette is a strong supporter of states rights.

In fact, there was a recent case, brought by the members of a school volleyball team, because the school canceled the volleyball program and replaced it with cheerleading. Cheerleading can (theoretically) support more women athletes at a lower cost per athlete than volleyball can. Note that this case deals with a competitive cheerleading squad.

 

[Archangel]

Cheerleading is considered to be a Title IX sport in over 50% of states, so this criticism is a strawman. Surely such a fine, upstanding libertarian as Penn Jillette is a strong supporter of states rights.

Could you please provide a cite that it's considered to be a Title IX sport in over 50% of the US states?

From the wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerleading

Sport debate

There has been debate on whether or not cheerleading truly is a sport. Supporters consider cheerleading, as a whole, a sport, citing the heavy use of athletic talents [20][21] while critics do not see it as deserving of that status since sport implies a competition among squads and not all squads compete, along with subjectivity of competitions.[22][23] One common argument is that cheerleading, while difficult and requiring athletic skill, should not be considered a sport any more than dancing. All-Star brings a whole new set of rules to the table, incorporating a high level of gymnastics and stunting, and very competitive routines. During the 2008 Cheerleading Worlds, the USASF launched its "Be an All-Star" campaign and public service announcement, promoting the positive qualities of All-Star cheerleading and the concept of cheerleading as a sport.

While competitive cheerleading qualifies as a sport according to some, normal cheerleading (that which is performed on sidelines of an athletic game) is not widely considered a sport since that form of cheerleading is not a competitive activity between two, or more teams.[24][unreliable source?]

On January 27, 2009, in a lawsuit involving an accidental injury sustained during a cheerleading practice, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled that cheerleading is a full-contact sport in that state.[25][26]

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_ix


Neither mention that it's classified as a Title IX sport and my quick googling around has provided nothing that says that is the case either - all of the information I've found corroborates that it's not a Title IX sport.

for example:
http://title-ix.blogspot.com/2010/06/cheerleading-on-trial.html

http://crimewatch.gaeatimes.com/201...icut-could-clarify-title-ix-guidelines-34302/

http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Rah-rah-rah-Cheerleading-is-not-a-sport-533187.php

http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/cheerleading-context-title-ix-and-gendering-sport

Title IX and Cheerleading

According to the Women’s Sports Foundation (2000) a sport is (a) a “physical activity which involves propelling a mass through space or overcoming the resistance of a mass,” (b) “a contest or competition against or with an opponent,” (c) “governed by rules which explicitly define the time, space and purpose of the contest and the conditions under which a winner is declared,” and (d) intended primarily to “compare[e] … the relative skills of the participants” (¶3). Does cheerleading comply with theses requirements? The foundation’s opinion on whether cheerleading and some other activities are indeed sports covered by Title IX and education department Office of Civil Rights (OCR) protections is a guarded one. Sufficient quality opportunities for competition is a Title IX concern, the foundation notes; the OCR assesses “the number of competitive events offered per sport, the number and length of practices and the number of pre-season and post-season competitive opportunities” (¶6). Thus if a cheerleading squad or drill team has as its overarching mission not presentations at male teams’ competitions, but rather

compet[ition] against other drill teams or cheerleaders on a regular season and post season qualification basis in much the same structure as basketball or gymnastics and if the team conducted regular practices in preparation for such competition while under the supervision of a coach, [then] these activities could be considered sports. On occasion, these groups could also put on exhibitions at boys’ or men’s sports events, but these exhibitions could not be their primary purpose. (¶7)

Still, the foundation warns that attempting to relabel girls’ existing, funded programs as sports programs when they are not is “unethical,” and that “danceline, drill team, cheerleading, baton twirling or the marching band are [in many cases] clearly not fulfilling the definitional requirements of sport” (¶8).

The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) appears interested in distinguishing sports competitors from cheerleaders involved only in extracurricular activities. A 2006–07 NFHS survey on participation counted participants on “competitive spirit squads”: cheerleading, pom, kick, dance, and drill teams. In terms of number of participants, such squads rank among the top 10 sports in high schools nationwide (National Federation of State High School Associations, 2007, p. 47). The squads comprise competitive athletes who over the past several years have qualified and been recognized as athletic teams by OCR under Title IX.

Collegiate cheerleaders operate within their institutions’ athletic departments, but are not always deemed to represent a sport. When a squad’s central purpose is to support and promote athletes in other sports, then it does not qualify as a sports team. To qualify, a squad must meet five OCR criteria for varsity sports, as follows:

1. Selection of squad members must be based largely on factors related to athletic ability.
2. The squad’s activity must have as a primary purpose the preparation for and participation in athletic competition against other, similar teams.
3. The squad must prepare for and participate in competition in the same way other teams in the athletic program do, for example by conducting tryouts, being coached, practicing regularly, and being scheduled regularly for competitions.
4. National-, state-, and conference-level championship competitions must exist for the squad’s activity.
5. The squad’s activity must be administered by an athletics department.

While the specification of what makes a sport a sport has no doubt been beneficial to cheerleading, cheerleaders are like other female athletes nationwide in facing challenges to the advancement of their sports. Typifying these challenges is the case of McCormic and Geldwert v. School District of Mamaroneck and School District of Pelham (2004). Hoping to be observed by college recruiters, two female athletes wanted to compete in high school soccer during the fall. They attended schools where, by tradition, boys used the athletic facilities for their fall and winter sports, relegating girls’ soccer season to spring. Spring soccer not only potentially deprived them of collegiate opportunities, it interfered with their participation in state and regional championships, the girls claimed. In affirming the trial court’s finding for the girls in this case, the U.S. District Court of Appeals said,

Title IX was enacted in order to remedy discrimination that results from stereotyped notions of women’s interest and abilities, and to allow a numbers-based lack of interest defense to become the instrument of further discrimination against the underrepresented gender would pervert the remedial purpose of Title IX. (McCormic and Geldwert v. School District)

Unlike the two New York school districts of McCormic, the school district for Lacey, Washington, where there are three public high schools, made a willing effort to increase girls’ participation in sports (which had significantly trailed boys’). The district surveyed girls about the sports they would enjoy that were not already available to them. As a group they chose gymnastics over lacrosse, water polo, and power lifting (Wochnick, 2007). It may seem a small step, but the survey is nevertheless an encouraging sign that the fundamentals of Title IX are being implemented and organizations are acting on the Title IX tenet that girls’ purported lesser interest in sports does not justify boys’ greater access to sport.

Title IX also mandates that athletics funding for girls must be on a scale with that for boys. When Florida’s high school athletic association recognized cheerleading as a sport in 2007, cheerleaders looked forward to smaller personal expenditures for coaching, facilities, insurance, transportation, and uniforms. Cheerleading teams in states whose high school athletic associations do not sanction cheerleading cover their own costs, often running to hundreds of dollars monthly. During the 2006–07 school year only 26 states were represented in cheerleading competitions; yet how many states actually recognize cheerleading as a sport is hard to determine, because qualifying is difficult and registration and entry fees are high (Peters, 2003). Despite the sport of cheerleading’s recent recognition in Florida, squads have encountered roadblocks to financial support, in the form of school district decisions to delay an inaugural season until the 2008–09 school year. Public budgets are tight and, despite Florida high school cheerleaders’ new status, few school districts’ allocations covered spirit squads. Even when allocations do come, competitive cheerleaders will pay for extras (e.g., choreographers, camps) out of pocket and with the old standby, the fundraiser. Non-school-based all star teams are on their own, of course, financially.

A byproduct of nearly 30 years without sport status is competitive cheerleading’s reliance on private enterprise and independent, often certified professionals to supply training, coaching, and mentoring. All star gyms or clubs exist that have been tailored to the demands of cheerleader preparation, featuring for example spring-mat floors that meet competitive “specs.” Not surprisingly, most public high schools lack such ideal facilities. Their floor mats tend to be of foam. Nor are public school teachers reliably equipped with the background and certification ideal for leadership in so-called “adapted” sports. Further, as within the coaching profession generally after Title IX, ever fewer of the coaches overseeing high school competitive cheerleaders may be female. This does not bode well for a 90%-female competitive spirit sports constituency.

Now admittedly I'm not an American, so I might be missing something that is well known over there and I'll readily own up to that, but from all my reading claiming that it's accepted as a Title IX sport in over 50% of the states is clearly false.

Also I really am not seeing why anyone would be against the regulation of a sport where it's participants may be permanently paralysed or killed due to inadequate safe guards.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I didn't see the show, so I can't comment on what P & T said, but my problem with cheerleading seems to be the opposite.

Basically "cheerleading" as a sport was created by athletic departments cynically attempting to sneak around Title IX requirements. Instead of funding actual women's sports, they created a sport out of the cute girls that cheer at football games. In so doing, they created an insanely dangerous activity that is some sort of deviant combination of gymnastics, dance, and Cirque du Soleil.

Instead of funding soccer, softball, volleyball or another actual sport, money-grubbing AD's can cross one sport of the requirement list by just having this parasitic entity on their football team.

You don't see plans to assassinate kids to get their daughter on the soccer team though.

As for this, it also seems to be the first time they took the pro government regulation anti libertarian argument on their show. Maybe they are finally growing up...

 

[BPScooter]

I'm personally cool with all this, but would point out that (as posted just above):

"Title IX was enacted in order to remedy discrimination that results from stereotyped notions of women’s interest and abilities, and to allow a numbers-based lack of interest defense to become the instrument of further discrimination against the underrepresented gender would pervert the remedial purpose of Title IX. (McCormic and Geldwert v. School District)"

Where the hell did these 'stereotyped notions of women’s interest and abilities' come from if it wasn't the interested (cheerleader) parties (women) displaying some sort of interest (yelling cheerfully at sporting events) and abilities (gymnastic type flips)???? Why is it my concern to rectify this situation??? They should just knock it off and we'd be done with the whole thing. I'd just go back into playing in the band, and the players and fans could get focused on the game. I suppose I'm a big fat sexist now.

 

[TraneWreck]

You don't see plans to assassinate kids to get their daughter on the soccer team though.

As for this, it also seems to be the first time they took the pro government regulation anti libertarian argument on their show. Maybe they are finally growing up...

Evil, evil government, giving girls something to do other than look purty...

I was thinking more about my problem with cheerleading as a sport:

1) First, I agree with people who don't like the "judged" aspect. I don't particularly like any sport with judges. That being said, after watching this World Cup (or reading about it because ESPN wants me to like soccer no matter how boring it is), it would be folly to pretend like the "real" sports aren't subject to judges.

Hell, football is the worst of all. There is a legitimate penalty on every play. Here's one of the most famous plays in the history of the game where holding could have been called at least 5 different times:



Great play, exciting game, but it only happened because of a judgment by the refs to "let them play." In other words, temporarily abandon the rules (and lest anyone accuse me of being a Pats fan, they won their first Superbowl because the refs decided to let their DBs grapple with the Rams' receivers).

So the judged part of it can't be the sole reason to dismiss the sport.

2) What really irks me, as I mentioned earlier, is the sleazy way schools use cheerleading to evade Title IX. They were already paying for cheerleaders, they would continue to pay for cheerleaders, so they save money by just declaring it a sport. But it isn't a sport, which is why all attempts to make it look like one have resulted in gruesome injuries.

It's barely distinguishable from declaring the marching band to be a sport. Just make them do summersaults and backflips while they mangle a marching band version of Holste or Led Zeppelin. Then, after 20 kids are impaled by trombone slides or have their eyes gouged out by wayward clarinets, we sit down and think about ways to make it "safer."

The whole process is too cynical, but all well within the standard operating procedure of collegiate athletics.

 

[ponderingturtle]

2) What really irks me, as I mentioned earlier, is the sleazy way schools use cheerleading to evade Title IX. They were already paying for cheerleaders, they would continue to pay for cheerleaders, so they save money by just declaring it a sport. But it isn't a sport, which is why all attempts to make it look like one have resulted in gruesome injuries.

It's barely distinguishable from declaring the marching band to be a sport. Just make them do summersaults and backflips while they mangle a marching band version of Holste or Led Zeppelin. Then, after 20 kids are impaled by trombone slides or have their eyes gouged out by wayward clarinets, we sit down and think about ways to make it "safer."

The whole process is too cynical, but all well within the standard operating procedure of collegiate athletics.

You seem to have decided the cause and effect of the situation, where did you get your data from to draw that conclusion? What made people introduce those things to say skateboarding and such?

 

[Travis]

I don't know, if we can have a sport where someone called an Umpire "judges" whether an action called a "pitch" is a "ball" or a "strike" based purely on the subjective opinion of that Umpire's understanding (or lack thereof) of geometry then we can allow something like Cheerleading to be a sport.

I loved the episode on Fast Food. I thought they nailed that one.

 

[TraneWreck]

You seem to have decided the cause and effect of the situation, where did you get your data from to draw that conclusion? What made people introduce those things to say skateboarding and such?

All the sources I've been reading are pretty vague. They go from dudes yelling at fans in the 19th century to chicks yelling at fans in the 1920's to hot chicks gyrating in front of Dallas fans in the 1960's.

Title IX was passed in 1972, "In 1976, the first stunt, called a liberty, was taught at the Universal Cheerleaders Association summer camp."
http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/cheerleading-context-title-ix-and-gendering-sport

The growth of competitive cheerleading takes off from there.

Now the major issue, as we've been discussing, is whether cheerleading is significant enough of a sport to qualify for Title IX funding. National organizations dedicated to women's sports are, themselves, conflicted:

Still, [the Women’s Sports Foundation] warns that attempting to relabel girls’ existing, funded programs as sports programs when they are not is “unethical,” and that “danceline, drill team, cheerleading, baton twirling or the marching band are [in many cases] clearly not fulfilling the definitional requirements of sport”

http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/cheerleading-context-title-ix-and-gendering-sport

This is what I was talking about earlier. Athletic Departments first attempted to just say, "Our dance team is now a sport, therefore we can count all the women participating towards the Title IX requirements." This is obviously cynical.

The response, though, is very interesting. Instead of just saying that cheerleading is like the marching band, entertainment during other sporting events, they developed standards to define it as a sport:

When a squad’s central purpose is to support and promote athletes in other sports, then it does not qualify as a sports team. To qualify, a squad must meet five OCR criteria for varsity sports, as follows:

1.Selection of squad members must be based largely on factors related to athletic ability.
2.The squad’s activity must have as a primary purpose the preparation for and participation in athletic competition against other, similar teams.
3.The squad must prepare for and participate in competition in the same way other teams in the athletic program do, for example by conducting tryouts, being coached, practicing regularly, and being scheduled regularly for competitions.
4.National-, state-, and conference-level championship competitions must exist for the squad’s activity.
5.The squad’s activity must be administered by an athletics department.

(same link as above)

So cheerleading has now grown into this odd activity with men hurling women into the air and periodically catching them. It is becoming increasingly athletic to justify it's status as a "sport," and in so doing has become exceedingly dangerous.

That may not be the sort of causal chain you're looking for, and perhaps it's purely coincidental that cheerleading became a sport a few years afte Title IX was passed, but I watched the athletic department at the school where I played baseball do everything they could to find the cheapest women's sports to satisfy Title IX.

With the exception of basketball and volleyball, we didn't have a women's soccer team, softball team, gymnastics, swimming, or any other sport women generally compete in. We had a rowing team, offering scholarships to women who had never rowed before in their lives and assorted other cheap teams that no one in the community ever watched. They tried HARD to list the cheerleaders, who they were already paying for, as athletes.

 

[sthomson]

Could you please provide a cite that it's considered to be a Title IX sport in over 50% of the US states?

I just did a quick google search. Cheerleading in the Context of Title IX and Gendering in Sports

Competitive cheerleading hit the scene in the late 1970s, when the television network CBS first televised the Collegiate Cheerleading Championships, in 1978 (Mercer, 2006)... Decades later, however, only 26 states appear to have given high school cheerleading Title IX status...

26/50 > .50 I'm being a bit silly, because I don't think states can "give high school cheerleading" any sort of status. The analysis done in this article merely looks at how many states have high schools with competitive cheer squads. The answer is 26. Competitive cheering is currently considered "a sport".

The Federal Agency in charge of overseeing Title IX claims was the OCR (Office of Civil Rights). Until recently, their blanket policy was to consider Cheerleading to be an extracurricular. Now, it seems their policy is to examine each case individually. From Page 7 of this FAQ

Q: Can cheerleading be considered a varsity sport?
A: No in the case of traditional cheerleading where cheerleaders perform at athletic events and participating in no or few cheerleading competitions each year. Yes if the cheerleading team has a coach, practices as frequently as a regular varsity team, and competes against other cheerleading teams on a regular basis and more frequently than it appears to cheer for other teams.

Q: Is any sport excluded from Title IX?
A: No. All sports at an institution are included under Title IX.

So as far as I can see, until a federal judge rules otherwise, competitive cheerleading is a Title IX sport. That does not mean that every school will have a competitive cheer squad.

 

[Archangel]

I just did a quick google search. Cheerleading in the Context of Title IX and Gendering in Sports

26/50 > .50 I'm being a bit silly, because I don't think states can "give high school cheerleading" any sort of status. The analysis done in this article merely looks at how many states have high schools with competitive cheer squads. The answer is 26. Competitive cheering is currently considered "a sport".

I already posted that cite and as it says further down:

During the 2006–07 school year only 26 states were represented in cheerleading competitions; yet how many states actually recognize cheerleading as a sport is hard to determine, because qualifying is difficult and registration and entry fees are high (Peters, 2003).


This is different to 26 states recognise it as a Title IX sport, which was your original claim.
From my understanding wouldn't Title IX status also apply to the college teams, not just High School?

The Federal Agency in charge of overseeing Title IX claims was the OCR (Office of Civil Rights). Until recently, their blanket policy was to consider Cheerleading to be an extracurricular. Now, it seems their policy is to examine each case individually. From Page 7 of this FAQ

So as far as I can see, until a federal judge rules otherwise, competitive cheerleading is a Title IX sport. That does not mean that every school will have a competitive cheer squad.

I read that differently to you, as apparently do the P&T researchers.
It can only be classified a sport in certain circumstances and as long as it competes more frequently than it cheers for other teams.

What is the frequency that a cheerleading squad appears at games for the rest of the high school teams? not having (high school) cheerleaders out here this is an actual question, but from my understanding they appear at all games i.e. basketball, football etc. for the school.

As long as there is 1 game per week of any of the other sports, you've just relegated the cheerleaders to having to compete twice weekly for the school year to keep their Title IX status.

If there's more than 1 game per week they're cheering for, they're basically screwed as they would not be able to compete enough to meet the quota.

Similarly, danceline, cheerleading, drill team, baton twirling and marching band (and in some states even debate and typing) may periodically act like sports teams when they engage in state or regional championship competitions conducted under the jurisdiction of high school federations. The existence of a competitive opportunity does not qualify the extracurricular activity as an athletic team or sport. This issue was addressed by a 1975 Office for Civil Rights Memorandum to School Superintendents which specifically stated that "drill teams, cheerleaders and the like" were extracurricular activities not considered to be a part of the institution's athletic program. Title IX requires an assessment of the quality of competitive opportunities offered to men and women with regard to competitive level and numbers of competitions. The Office for Civil Rights looks at the number of competitive events offered per sport, the number and length of practices and the number of pre-season and post-season competitive opportunities offered to both male and female participants.

This does not mean that drill teams or similar programs could not under any circumstances be considered a sport. If the primary purpose of drill team or cheerleaders is to compete against other drill teams or cheerleaders on a regular season and post season qualification basis in much the same structure as basketball or gymnastics and if the team conducted regular practices in preparation for such competition while under the supervision of a coach, these activities could be considered sports. On occasion, these groups could also put on exhibitions at boys' or men's sports events, but these exhibitions could not be their primary purpose.

http://www.womenssportsfoundation.o...s-Varsity-Sports-The-Foundation-Position.aspx


Gymnastics is considered a sport by Title IX, yet Cheerleading - basically gymnastics in groups - is not considered a sport unless it jumps through a bucket load of hoops none of the other sports have to.

It wouldn't be hard for Title IX to be amended to explicitly include Cheerleading as a sport, much in the way Football or Soccer already is, yet for some reason there appears to be pressure to not do so.

 

[sthomson]

This is different to 26 states recognise it as a Title IX sport, which was your original claim.
From my understanding wouldn't Title IX status also apply to the college teams, not just High School?

If the school recognizes it as a sport, the athletes must counted for Title IX purposes. This applies at both the college and high school level - it seems pretty clear to me. Again, I was being a bit silly with my 50% statement - finding the actual percentage of school districts that consider cheerleading to be a varsity sport would be difficult.

What is the frequency that a cheerleading squad appears at games for the rest of the high school teams? not having (high school) cheerleaders out here this is an actual question, but from my understanding they appear at all games i.e. basketball, football etc. for the school.

As long as there is 1 game per week of any of the other sports, you've just relegated the cheerleaders to having to compete twice weekly for the school year to keep their Title IX status.

Unless, of course, there are two squads - a "pep" cheer squad and a competitive cheer squad. The competitive cheer squad would appear at no games. At least, that's how I would organize it if I were the head of a high school or college athletic department.

Edited to add: There are maybe 10 football games in a high school season - perhaps slightly more at the college level. This is not a difficult number of cheerleading competitions to attend in one year.

Gymnastics is considered a sport by Title IX, yet Cheerleading - basically gymnastics in groups - is not considered a sport unless it jumps through a bucket load of hoops none of the other sports have to.

Marching band.

 

[ponderingturtle]

All the sources I've been reading are pretty vague. They go from dudes yelling at fans in the 19th century to chicks yelling at fans in the 1920's to hot chicks gyrating in front of Dallas fans in the 1960's.

Title IX was passed in 1972, "In 1976, the first stunt, called a liberty, was taught at the Universal Cheerleaders Association summer camp."
http://www.thesportjournal.org/article/cheerleading-context-title-ix-and-gendering-sport

The growth of competitive cheerleading takes off from there.

So all you have is a post hoc ergo propter hoc as your argument?

So cheerleading has now grown into this odd activity with men hurling women into the air and periodically catching them. It is becoming increasingly athletic to justify it's status as a "sport," and in so doing has become exceedingly dangerous.

How can you say that, again you are attributing cause, what if it is just that people have become enamored with the more acrobatic moves? This fits with things like people who try to think snowboarding is a sport for example.

We need to do something about this damnable desire to make thing XTREME!!!

 

[TraneWreck]

How can you say that, again you are attributing cause, what if it is just that people have become enamored with the more acrobatic moves? This fits with things like people who try to think snowboarding is a sport for example.

We need to do something about this damnable desire to make thing XTREME!!!

I suppose you're going to ignore the part where national sports boards are developing criteria teams must meet to be considered a sport. That contradicts your organic development theory (though the two aren't mutually exclusive--I'm sure someone like the idea independently of Title IX or other funding reasons).

Again, Title IX comes along schools declare, "Our dance team is now a sport." Women's national sporting bodies call this cynical and develop criteria that cheerleading must meet to be considered a sport. Cheerleading becomes consistently more geared towards competition and athletic achievement.

There's obviously no test case, no world without Title IX. But athletic departments really did try to use cheerleading to sneak around Title IX requirements. Cheerleading really did become more structured in response.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I suppose you're going to ignore the part where national sports boards are developing criteria teams must meet to be considered a sport. That contradicts your organic development theory (though the two aren't mutually exclusive--I'm sure someone like the idea independently of Title IX or other funding reasons).

So which specific clauses in title IX cause them to do those kinds of risky tricks?


What is the definition of Sport in Title IX?

 

[TraneWreck]

So which specific clauses in title IX cause them to do those kinds of risky tricks?


What is the definition of Sport in Title IX?

Are these serious questions or are you just being difficult?

Title IX mandates funding for women's sports. Any activity that can be defined as a sport will therefore be available for that funding.

From the perspective of the cheerleaders then, there is an interest in being declared a sport.

From the perspective of many colleges and universities, there is an interest because they're already allocating funds to cheerleaders to entertain fans at football games. If it's declared a sport, they can move towards satisfying Title IX requirements without spending any more money.

Women's national sporting bodies, like the one quoted above, put pressure on schools, administrators, and governing bodies, like the NCAA. They file lawsuits when necessary, meaning that it is in the interest of said groups to make decisions in line with criteria established by those Women's sporting institutions.

Thus, for both cheerleaders and schools, their interests are only satisfied if they can survive lawsuits, like those currently pending, concerning cheerleading as a sport. This requires them to follow guidelines established by Women's national sporting groups.

I'm not even sure what you think is happening.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Are these serious questions or are you just being difficult?

Title IX mandates funding for women's sports. Any activity that can be defined as a sport will therefore be available for that funding.

But you are claiming that they need to add dangerous acrobatic instead of more moderate acrobatics to qualify as a sport.

I'm not even sure what you think is happening.

I don't see that being classed as a sport leads it to being dangerous. I can see plenty of other reasons for them to be competitive, how does being classes as a sport make it so dangerous? What about it does this?

Look at the change in skateboarding now compared to when title IX was passed, seems much more risky as they are doing crazy stunts. So clearly title IX made skateboarders motivated to do crazy stunts.

 

[Archangel]

If the school recognizes it as a sport, the athletes must counted for Title IX purposes. This applies at both the college and high school level - it seems pretty clear to me. Again, I was being a bit silly with my 50% statement - finding the actual percentage of school districts that consider cheerleading to be a varsity sport would be difficult.

I assumed, and I may be wrong about this, that Title IX was applied at a higher level than just an individual school or even school district?

I.E. school's A, B and C cannot claim that Cheerleading is a sport under Title IX whilst schools X, Y and Z claim that it isn't.

I assume that Title IX sports are entitled to state/federal funding, if that's the case how does it work if School A considers it a sport and School X doesn't?
[sarcastic (not directed at you)] given it's the government probably a commission and a waste of money determining whether School A is complying with all of the requirements I guess [/sarcastic]


That just seems so silly to me, is there anything else in the US school system that works like that?

Unless, of course, there are two squads - a "pep" cheer squad and a competitive cheer squad. The competitive cheer squad would appear at no games. At least, that's how I would organize it if I were the head of a high school or college athletic department.

Edited to add: There are maybe 10 football games in a high school season - perhaps slightly more at the college level. This is not a difficult number of cheerleading competitions to attend in one year.

Two squads could work, but you wouldn't be able to have any overlap between the two so that there is no chance of getting your Title IX status revoked.

Don't forget it's cumulative cheering for other teams, so it's 10 football + 10 (for the sake of the argument) basketball games and all of a sudden you're at 20 competitions.

Marching band.

I would have no problem with Marching Bands being classed a sport under Title IX either... but then again I'm always free with other peoples money and tight with my own

You really aren't gaining any stature in these forums with comments like these.

Way to make a guy feel small.