Jewish dance group stoned in Hanover, Germany

[DC]

The argumentum ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.

 

[bigjelmapro]

The argumentum ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.

In this case it isn't. Unless you can somehow explain how 'bigjelmaprostein' is a accepted form of debate.

I guess you're a fan.

 

[DC]

In this case it isn't. Unless you can somehow explain how 'bigjelmaprostein' is a accepted form of debate.

I guess you're a fan.

Have you already informed the guys from Duden and told them how to properly use Kies and Kieselsteine?

 

[Childlike Empress]

How grown up of you. Ad hom doesn't really count as an argument.

See user name. Before i posted it i asked myself if it could be viewed as antisemitic slur, but decided that even you wouldn't misunderstand the situational hilarity it was embedded into.

I wouldn't have heard about the incident at all weren't it for this thread. I see no "core issues" here, it's an unfortunate event you can't understand without knowing the background of the people involved. None of us knows the exact background of the culprits, if they were born in Germany and badly integrated, or just arrived lately after parts of their families were killed in Lebanon or Palestine by Israelis. I don't feel like having enough information to draw any larger conclusions from this event, and i doubt there are any at all.

 

[Yogzotot]

I think the statement in the post you took issue with is probably overstated:

"Everywhere Muslims live with non-Muslims, there is conflict. The bigger the Muslim population, the bigger the conflict"?

Well, it certainly is overstated. It would mean that with 100% Muslim population, conflict would be maximised.

 

[bigjelmapro]

See user name. Before i posted it i asked myself if it could be viewed as antisemitic slur, but decided that even you wouldn't misunderstand the situational hilarity it was embedded into.

Wouldn't classify it as an 'antisemitic slur' either, but a distasteful ad hominem nonetheless.

I wouldn't have heard about the incident at all weren't it for this thread. I see no "core issues" here, it's an unfortunate event you can't understand without knowing the background of the people involved. None of us knows the exact background of the culprits, if they were born in Germany and badly integrated, or just arrived lately after parts of their families were killed in Lebanon or Palestine by Israelis. I don't feel like having enough information to draw any larger conclusions from this event, and i doubt there are any at all.

No 'core issues' followed by a slew of excuses for good measure.

No mention of a hate crime either. I guess yelling 'Yuden Raus' and pelting Jews with stones passes for poorly integrated immigrants these days and an accepted form of protest.

Sounds like you have made up your mind.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Have you already informed the guys from Duden and told them how to properly use Kies and Kieselsteine?

Convinced yourself that the term kieselstein doesn't exist? Wasn't used in the article? And that a stein up to 2.5 inches in diameter could still be classified as a pebble?

We've been through this and my reservations in using the diminutive term pebble instead of the term stone. But keep playing the game, doesn't make you look any smarter.

 

[DC]

Wouldn't classify it as an 'antisemitic slur' either, but a distasteful ad hominem nonetheless.


No 'core issues' followed by a slew of excuses for good measure.

No mention of a hate crime either. I guess yelling 'Yuden Raus' and pelting Jews with stones passes for poorly integrated immigrants these days and an accepted form of protest.

Sounds like you have made up your mind.

how would you fight rising antisemitism?

 

[DC]

Convinced yourself that the term kieselstein doesn't exist? Wasn't used in the article? And that a stein up to 2.5 inches in diameter could still be classified as a pebble?

We've been through this and my reservations in using the diminutive term pebble instead of the term stone. But keep playing the game, doesn't make you look any smarter.

LOL

in english I have been using the word STONE and not pebble or gravel........
and you have no clue about the German language, so quit telling me how to use it.

and way to twist things, i never claimed that the term Kieselsteine doesn't exist.

and about the size..... it was me teaching you the sizes of Kies.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Wouldn't classify it as an 'antisemitic slur' either, but a distasteful ad hominem nonetheless.

I knew you wouldn't be amused, but if you felt honestly offended by it, i apologize.

No 'core issues' followed by a slew of excuses for good measure.

No mention of a hate crime either. I guess yelling 'Yuden Raus' and pelting Jews with stones passes for poorly integrated immigrants these days and an accepted form of protest.

Sounds like you have made up your mind.

Excuses for what? What do you want me to do? Yell at those kids who'll never read my posts? Or is it like Thunder said, i should blame moslems and/or germans for it? Tell us the core issues you see.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

That's disturbing. I know there is a large population of muslims in Europe that are hostile to Jews in particular. Hopfully that kind of activity does not come to America.

Was surprised to read this morning that Muslims have been blocking streets in New York for prayer though. Never though that would be allowed to occur.

http://www.advicegoddess.com/goddessblog.html

Ah - undiluted hatred of Muslims.

What a disgusting 'argument'.

 

[DC]

Ah - undiluted hatred of Muslims.

What a disgusting 'argument'.

what do you think about the kids throwing stones?

 

[ddt]

No 'core issues' followed by a slew of excuses for good measure.

No mention of a hate crime either. I guess yelling 'Yuden Raus' and pelting Jews with stones passes for poorly integrated immigrants these days and an accepted form of protest.

Did anyone say that in the thread? Oh, and they have been reported for hate crimes (Volksverhetzung), by several parties.

I do hope you're actually interested in the background of antisemitic expressions. It's very facile to just say: "you committed a hate crime, now go to jail". It's much more challenging to look at the causes. Why do people do this?

You might take a look at the 2008 year report of CIDI, the Dutch Center for Information and Documentation on Israel. They yearly publish a report on the level of antisemitism in the Netherlands. On pages 8 and 9, they have graphs which shows a clear correlation between the level of antisemitism and major Israeli actions.

(The CIDI 2009 report is not yet out because they haven't received data yet from other institutions which they integrate into their report).

I haven't been able to find a comparable "antisemitism monitor" in Germany. Someone has a link to that?

 

[Childlike Empress]

I haven't been able to find a comparable "antisemitism monitor" in Germany. Someone has a link to that?

The most detailed i know of is the annual Verfassungsschutzbericht, but there may be others more specifically dealing with antisemitism.

 

[ddt]

The most detailed i know of is the annual Verfassungsschutzbericht, but there may be others more specifically dealing with antisemitism.

I've read that one - I should have said. It gives only half a page on antisemitism, and only one total number, no analysis at all. I've also looked at the Bundesamt für Politische Bildung, the Antisemitism Research Centre of the TU Berlin, and the Antonio Adameo Foundation, which were all referrals from relevant wiki pages. None had this kind of yearly report.

 

[bigjelmapro]

in english I have been using the word STONE and not pebble or gravel........

Then we don't have an issue to begin with, so it begs to question why you're getting so worked up when my reply was towards someone who was using the term pebble.

and you have no clue about the German language, so quit telling me how to use it.

Dutch is also a Germanic language. I'm using the knowledge of the term I know in Dutch, which is closely similar to that of German. The term was in the article itself. So again, no idea what you're getting worked up about.

and way to twist things, i never claimed that the term Kieselsteine doesn't exist.

So what's the issue? I'm merely using the term in the article. No twisting involved, so stop playing the victim.

 

[bigjelmapro]

I knew you wouldn't be amused, but if you felt honestly offended by it, i apologize.

Has nothing to do with the offense, but that you thought it was an interesting approach to debate.

Excuses for what? What do you want me to do? Yell at those kids who'll never read my posts? Or is it like Thunder said, i should blame moslems and/or germans for it? Tell us the core issues you see.

Then re-read your own post. You accused me of not know the background information, which I never claimed I did, but then you go forth in stating a number of excuses which seemingly justify the actions of these youth in throwing stones and seemingly framing it as a crime of passion rather than a hate crime.

Would be astonished if all such hate crimes were so deeply questioned and dissected.

I've stated what should be investigated which is the rise of anti-semitism and disdain for Jews in the Islamic uhmmah overall. The libel is plastered all over the internet, so not really hard to find...

So the end result is a question of education not playing the blame game since that hardly solves anything.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Did anyone say that in the thread? Oh, and they have been reported for hate crimes (Volksverhetzung), by several parties.

Who said 'anyone'? I was replying to someone specifically in that one post. Not a wholesale statement of denial.

I do hope you're actually interested in the background of antisemitic expressions. It's very facile to just say: "you committed a hate crime, now go to jail". It's much more challenging to look at the causes. Why do people do this?

Who said jail? Would rather go for the education angle. I very much doubt that anybody sent to jail for a hate crime would return into the free world with a better, more positive outlook towards the people he/she attacked in the first place.

EDIT: Would like to see a correlation as well to the attack on Palestinians by Jews for the actions of the PA, Hamas, and Hezbollah, but I would assume such studies are non-existent. Also, the causes would also envelop the causes of these causes, ie the Lebanon and Gaza war, in the first place.

You might take a look at the 2008 year report of CIDI, the Dutch Center for Information and Documentation on Israel. They yearly publish a report on the level of antisemitism in the Netherlands. On pages 8 and 9, they have graphs which shows a clear correlation between the level of antisemitism and major Israeli actions...

Thanks for the link. I don't see how turning this into a correlation with Israeli policies has to do with this specific event, unless its a massively delayed reaction to the Gaza flotilla incident. Just for the record, I don't deny this obvious correlation. Simply don't see how this is applicable.

 

[Resolver]

What's disproportionate about it?

Muslims make up about 1/4 of the world population, but it seems much more than 1/4 of attacks such as 9/11, 7/7, death threats over religion, etc. come from Muslims. There are plenty of peaceful Muslims, but there is a disproportionate tendency all over the world to act upon the violent, holy war type of "Jihad", Jane.

 

[DC]

Then we don't have an issue to begin with, so it begs to question why you're getting so worked up when my reply was towards someone who was using the term pebble.

wow, nice twisting, i'm honestly impressed.

here your first post on the topic, the one i responded to because it contained a lot of misleading claims from your side. I bolded it.

Don't see mentioning of 'peddles'. Why can't one do traditional dances of one's religion and/or country?

This is a hate crime, pure and simple.


Playing the role of apologist here too I see. Yelling 'Juden Raus' is not a display of being upset by Israeli policies.

So we have the use of the innocuous term of 'peddles' and here, 'children'. There were children (minors) involved, but to say that only minors were involved is a stretch.


I think you're the one doing the misleading.

i responded with this:

in the German press, and CE linked to one, they actually say it were pebbles.
and yes it were not only kids, it was a group of people aged 9 to 19, so the 19 year olds were indeed not children anymore, according to the law.

i merely pointed out where those pebbles have been mentioned.

then you claimed strange stuff about the word and i corrected you on it. Later you got upset because i used the word Kies, which is usual for me rather than the longer word with the same meaning Kieselstein, and you wanted me to stop using that. And you claimed i did it to avoid the word stone (stein) while in English i have been using the word stone instead of gravel or pebble, because i am more used to the word stone.

so you should stop playing victim here when you are the attacker.

Dutch is also a Germanic language. I'm using the knowledge of the term I know in Dutch, which is closely similar to that of German. The term was in the article itself. So again, no idea what you're getting worked up about.

as you didn't even know that Kieselsteine does describe the size of the stone, i have to question your knowledge of the Dutch word Kiezelsteen.

So what's the issue? I'm merely using the term in the article. No twisting involved, so stop playing the victim.

and you probably claim that with a straight face.....