Jewish dance group stoned in Hanover, Germany

DC said:
i know his loaded "Humor"

my native language is German.

i dont know what the relevance is to her, to me it is relevant in attempting to understand where that hatred comes from.
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About the humor in English, I noticed this one, too :)

bit_pattern said:
No. Rather the subtle nuance of sarcasm in the English language must have beguiled you!
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Yes, and then that attempt to understand where that hatred comes from was said to be an attempt to diminish this hate crime incident as somewhat justified.
 
Resolver said:
About the humor in English, I noticed this one, too :)



Yes, and then that attempt to understand where that hatred comes from was said to be an attempt to diminish this hate crime incident as somewhat justified.
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i cannot speak for others, but for me it doesnt.

just because i try to understand why such hatred exists and keep existing doesnt mean i find it justified, thats pure nonsence.

when you want to solve problems, you first have to understand the problems.

i dont believe in evil and good like in religions, i dont belive those kids are pure evil, their hatred comes from something. but i dont try to justify what they did, i try to understand it.

i find their action very disgusting and condemn their action, and it doesnt matter that they believe it is justified for whatever reason.
violence beyond direct self-defence is not justifiable in my eyes.
 
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DC said:
yes i disagree with such a bigotted statement.
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It would be nice if you were correct in disagreement. I'm not so sure. Look at all the conflicts.

Isn't Islam pretty expansionary and harsh on people of other religions? There are lots of Koran quotes that might explain this.

"Fight Jews and Christians because they violated the origin of their faith and they do not believe in the religion of the truth (Islam), which abrogated all other religions. Fight them until they pay the poll-tax (Ziziya tax) with submission and humiliation."3

2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."

Although the latter quote is in self-defense (which can be applied loosely), Jesus never said stuff like "slay them wherever ye catch them".

3:195 "... Those who have ... fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God ..."

I know there are violent depictions in the much older Old Testament, but not so much of the same direct, instructional nature, with payment for blood in the afterlife.

There are tons of these violence-advocating quotes in the Koran, and lots of examples of conflicts that fit the quotes.
 
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Cavemonster said:
Yeah, I really wonder if a thread about any other peaceful group of people having rocks thrown at them would devolve so quickly into a comedy thread.

Can anyone link me to a thread where a violent, completely unprovoked attack was met so overwhelmingly with jokes?
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The violent, completely unprovoked murder of Rachel Corrie is always good for a laugh:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5989915

Advocating the murder of a boat load of civilians is, apparently, kosher on JREF, and also jolly good fun.

NWO Sentryman said:
Skeptic said:
I wonder if Israel has a plane large enough to air-lift a bulldozer and drop it on the ship to sink it.
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sigged! :newlol
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Resolver said:
It would be nice if you were correct in disagreement. I'm not so sure. Look at all the conflicts.

Isn't Islam pretty expansionary and harsh on people of other religions? There are lots of Koran quotes that might explain this.

"Fight Jews and Christians because they violated the origin of their faith and they do not believe in the religion of the truth (Islam), which abrogated all other religions. Fight them until they pay the poll-tax (Ziziya tax) with submission and humiliation."3

2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."

Although the latter quote is in self-defense (which can be applied loosely), Jesus never said stuff like "slay them wherever ye catch them".

I know there are violent depictions in the much older Old Testament, but not so much of the same direct, instructional nature.

There are tons of these violence-advocating quotes in the Koran, and lots of examples of conflicts that fit the quotes.
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i dont judge people based on the texts in old books, wouldnt have a nice outcome for all Abrahamic religions.

i judge them based on their actions. and sofar i havent met any moslem that follows those instructions of that old crazy book. even after i told some of them that i am an Atheist, i dont believe in those fantasy creatures.
mostly i dont get beheaded for it.

there are surely members of said religion that are huge trouble makers, some are opressive totalitarian reactionaires and some are even terrorists.
but i dont gonna judge 1.5 billion people based on the deeds of a few.

we have alot foreigners here, and there are many many problems coming with it, some troubles are related to Islam, other problems are related to other religions etc.
 
DC said:
i dont judge people based on the texts in old books, wouldnt have a nice outcome for all Abrahamic religions.

i judge them based on their actions. and sofar i havent met any moslem that follows those instructions of that old crazy book. even after i told some of them that i am an Atheist, i dont believe in those fantasy creatures.
mostly i dont get beheaded for it.

there are surely members of said religion that are huge trouble makers, some are opressive totalitarian reactionaires and some are even terrorists.
but i dont gonna judge 1.5 billion people based on the deeds of a few.

we have alot foreigners here, and there are many many problems coming with it, some troubles are related to Islam, other problems are related to other religions etc.
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Well, I didn't point to Koran versus about beheading atheists (though that might exist in a lesser frequency as well), so your reply in that regard is a little bit off subject IMO.

The quotes show it is a religion not squemish about slaying people and about lying in the interests of expanding and defending Islam.

Compare these quote with Jesus saying to turn the other cheek, etc.

I'm an atheist as well, but I think the New Testament is worlds more peaceful a text than the Koran.

Also, these are not just calls in ancient texts and behavior. They are embraced today.

Hamas Charter:

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

So what Islam and Jihad say are relevant, by the words of current regimes.

Koran and Jihad:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
 
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Resolver said:
It would be nice if you were correct in disagreement. I'm not so sure. Look at all the conflicts.

Isn't Islam pretty expansionary and harsh on people of other religions? There are lots of Koran quotes that might explain this.

"Fight Jews and Christians because they violated the origin of their faith and they do not believe in the religion of the truth (Islam), which abrogated all other religions. Fight them until they pay the poll-tax (Ziziya tax) with submission and humiliation."3

2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..."

Although the latter quote is in self-defense (which can be applied loosely), Jesus never said stuff like "slay them wherever ye catch them".

3:195 "... Those who have ... fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God ..."

I know there are violent depictions in the much older Old Testament, but not so much of the same direct, instructional nature, with payment for blood in the afterlife.

There are tons of these violence-advocating quotes in the Koran, and lots of examples of conflicts that fit the quotes.
Click to expand...

The Ottoman Empire seems largely a good example of tolerance towards those of other faiths - they provided a safe haven for Jews escaping persecution in Europe, for example. On the other side there are plenty of attrocities that have been commited in the name of Christianity against those of other faiths.
 
Resolver said:
Well, I didn't point to Koran versus about beheading atheists (though that might exist in a lesser frequency as well), so your reply in that regard is a little bit off subject IMO.

The quotes show it is a religion not squemish about slaying people and about lying in the interests of expanding and defending Islam.

Compare these quote with Jesus saying to turn the other cheek, etc.

I'm an atheist as well, but I think the New Testament is worlds more peaceful a text than the Koran.
Also, these are not just calls in ancient texts and behavior. They are embraced today.

Hamas Charter:

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

So what Islam and Jihad say are relevant, by the words of current regimes.

Koran and Jihad:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
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i agree with the bolded part.
the problem with the koran is the moslems believe they cannot reform it like Chsitians did with the old testament.

But most of them dont follow those extreme verses anymore. which comes pretty close to reforming it.

and also Christians dont follow their reformed bible anymore. you cannot judge Christians based on their reformed bible.

and especially do i not judge moslems based on the Hamas charter. Most Islamic organisation around here condemn hamas style terrorism.
in my city moslems have already several times protested against terrorism in the name of Islam and terrorism in general.
 
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when we can judge Moslems based on the Hamas charter, how come that palestinian group that was also in Hannover, did condemn the stone throwing? why didnt they supoprt it? wouldnt it be what the koran tells them?
 
Sideroxylon said:
The Ottoman Empire seems largely a good example of tolerance towards those of other faiths - they provided a safe haven for Jews escaping persecution in Europe, for example. On the other side there are plenty of attrocities that have been commited in the name of Christianity against those of other faiths.
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While the Ottoman empire was better to Jews than Europe was during some periods, it doesn't mean it was good. Under the Ottoman's, both Jews and Christians were 2nd class citizens that had to pay extra taxes, etc. Those outside Abrahamic religions had it worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Also, the empire did not span all of the Islamic world during all time. There were better and worse times and places for non-Muslims in the Islamic world.
 
DC said:
when we can judge Moslems based on the Hamas charter, how come that palestinian group that was also in Hannover, did condemn the stone throwing? why didnt they supoprt it? wouldnt it be what the koran tells them?
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There are many Koran versus, and one can choose what he will. But, on average, there are lots of violent versus, and many do tend to listen to those.

We can also go back to address the conflicts themselves. It seems the bombings, terrorist attacks, rock throwing, cartoon drawing protest, death threats, etc., tend to come from the Islamic fundamentalist community and tend not to come from certain other groups.
 
Resolver said:
There are many Koran versus, and one can choose what he will. But, on average, there are lots of violent versus, and many do tend to listen to those.

We can also go back to address the conflicts themselves. It seems the bombings, terrorist attacks, rock throwing, cartoon drawing protest, death threats, etc., tend to come from the Islamic fundamentalist community and tend not to come from certain other groups.
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the Islamic fundamentalist community is not the Islamic community
 
Resolver said:
While the Ottoman empire was better to Jews than Europe was during some periods, it doesn't mean it was good. Under the Ottoman's, both Jews and Christians were 2nd class citizens that had to pay extra taxes, etc. Those outside Abrahamic religions had it worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

Also, the empire did not span all of the Islamic world during all time. There were better and worse times and places for non-Muslims in the Islamic world.
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True enough. My purpose is just to provide a bit of a counter balance.
 
DC said:
the Islamic fundamentalist community is not the Islamic community
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It is still part of Islam. The Fundamentalist vs Non division might be said to be how some apologize for Islam's disproportionate representation in terrorism etc.
 
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Resolver said:
It is still part of Islam. The Fundamentalist vs Non division might be said to be how some apologize for Islam's disproportionate representation in terrorism etc.
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please what?
i dont understand what you want to say with that.
 
Childlike Empress said:
It's obviously relevant to understanding the event. I don't care to explain it to them, davefoc has posted some good summaries.
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Would be nice if you actually address the core issues with this incident.

Davefoc has done nothing but attempt to turn this into an Israeli-Palestinian issue. He has done it here and other threads when there's an overall issue of how Jews are viewed in the Islamic uhmmah.

This isn't a secret but somehow its conveniently glossed over by the lot of you who claim they want to 'understand the event'.

btw DC, seen that HAZ uses "Kiesel" too? bigjelmaprostein won't be amused.... :D
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How grown up of you. Ad hom doesn't really count as an argument.
 
JihadJane said:
Advocating the murder of a boat load of civilians is, apparently, kosher on JREF, and also jolly good fun.
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Haven't seen you on that thread lately. Is that because you can't defend your points? Deflections noted once again...
 
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