Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Ysidro]

The difference is, Caesar's life is not intertwined with supernatural mythology; his life is not the basis of any religion, and it's not widely believed that he was the simultaneous son and physical manifestation of God on Earth.

What, you never saw Shakespeare? Prophecies and ghosts! See, proof of the supernatural! And we all now Caesar ascended into godhood after his death.

Plus we have more proof he existed than Jesus.

All hail Caesar!

Hmm, it does make "rendering unto Caesar with is Caesar's" and "unto God what is God's" a lot easier.

 

[Hokulele]

How come you or any other skeptics never say this to Joobz when he talks about the servant/slavery issue probably 3 times more than I talk about martyred apostles.

Because joobz can provide evidence for the claim that Jesus condoned slavery, while you have yet to provide any evidence that the people on the list from Wikipedia^*:

a) Existed.
b) Died in the manner claimed.


Remember, you can't use the assumption that the New Testament is true to prove that the New Testament is true.


* - Which is known to be associated with atheists, therefor, from statements you made earlier in this thread, your reference implies that you yourself are an atheist. Wait, this isn't "dredge up irrelevant arguments from 10,000 posts ago" time? Never mind.

 

[six7s]

Now answer me this - how are you {DOC} completely unable to find the question mark on your keyboard?

I'm have a hunch that, rather than being unable to find it, he's merely reluctant to use it

Asking questions is part and parcel of doubt, which is anathema to faith... and DOC knows that without faith, he hasn't even an imaginary leg to stand on

Those who doubt AND ask questions risk being run over at the next zebra crossing

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe

It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it, absorbing all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself, excreting, into the mind of its carrier, a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with the nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain that has supplied them

The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing"

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that" and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic

"Oh, that was easy" says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing

Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book Well That About Wraps It Up For God

Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation
Douglas Adams

 

[KDLadage]

*removed*

 

[phoo]

Well, the hope of blissful eternal life is one reason. Another is peace in this life: John 14:27:

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14
from gateway.com

Actually, it was only after I let go of faith that my "heart" was no longer troubled.

The cognitive dissonance between what religion taught me and the reality that I could directly observe caused me quite a bit of angst. I am now MUCH more at peace since I have let go of religion-based prejudices and realized that I was in control of my own life. No cosmic puppet master was responsible for any adversity or could be appealed to for assistance.

 

[DOC]

...The difference is, Caesar's life is not intertwined with supernatural mythology; his life is not the basis of any religion, and it's not widely believed that he was the simultaneous son and physical manifestation of God on Earth...

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.[5]

<snip>

It formally deified Caesar as Divus Iulius in 42 BC, and Caesar Octavian henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of a god").[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar

 

[carlitos]

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.[5]

<snip>

It formally deified Caesar as Divus Iulius in 42 BC, and Caesar Octavian henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of a god").[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar

Thanks for posting that DOC. I found it very interesting.

Now, are you claiming that both Jesus and Caesar were Gods, or just Jesus?

 

[zooterkin]

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.[5]

<snip>

It formally deified Caesar as Divus Iulius in 42 BC, and Caesar Octavian henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of a god").[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar

Note the highlighted word. I'm glad you agree it is ridiculous to think that someone born two thousand years ago could actually be the son of a deity.

 

[Hokulele]

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.

Do you understand the difference between a royal/high status family claiming one of its ancestors was the son of a deity (hint, quite a number of them do that), and some previously unknown preacher claiming to be the actual son of a deity?

 

[DOC]

Thanks for posting that DOC. I found it very interesting.

Now, are you claiming that both Jesus and Caesar were Gods, or just Jesus?

Well the New Testament (centered around the life of Christ) has over 5000 manuscripts in existence and Caesar's supposed book Gallic Wars (which was never illegal to own) has 10. Also I've personally seen the testimony of probably at least 75 people on the positive life changing affect of Christ on their life and have never seen any about the affect of Caesar on their lives. Also the book centered around the life of Christ is the greatest selling book in history by most accounts. Additionally the religion based around the life of Christ has endured for 2000 years and is the largest religion in the world. I know of know religion based on Caesar's life. So my answer is just Jesus.

 

[Hokulele]

Well the New Testament (centered around the life of Christ) has over 5000 manuscripts in existence and Caesar's supposed book Gallic Wars (which was never illegal to own) has 10. Also I've personally seen the testimony of probably at least 75 people on the positive life changing affect of Christ on their life and have never seen any about the affect of Caesar on their lives. Also the book centered around the life of Christ is the greatest selling book in history by most accounts. Additionally the religion based around the life of Christ has endured for 2000 years and is the largest religion in the world. I know of know religion based on Caesar's life. So my answer is just Jesus.

Four, count 'em, four logical fallacies in a single post!

DOC, you really need to get your money back for that logic course you claim to have taken.

 

[Simon39759]

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.[5]

<snip>

It formally deified Caesar as Divus Iulius in 42 BC, and Caesar Octavian henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of a god").[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar

And, guess what historians say about these claims?
To give you a hint it is quite similar to the things atheists say about the supernatural claims surrounding Jesus.


Basically, by showing these claim that are almost universally rejected and yet have at least the same backing than Jesus' do, you are demonstrating how many Christians rely on an implicit special pleading...

 

[Cleon]

From Wiki's article on Julius Caesar:

Caesar was born into a patrician family, the gens Julia, which claimed descent from Iulus, son of the legendary Trojan prince Aeneas, supposedly the son of the goddess Venus.[5]

<snip>

It formally deified Caesar as Divus Iulius in 42 BC, and Caesar Octavian henceforth became Divi filius ("Son of a god").[115]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar

Cute, but that doesn't actually contradict anything I said. Nice try, but fail.

Once again, you cut out virtually the entire post to focus on a single line--only to completely fail to grasp its meaning. Julius Caesar is simply not considered to be a supernatural figure. At all.

Just once, would it be possibly to actually read my post, instead of just focusing on keywords that you have a google search for? There's an actual point in my post, which you completely cut out just for this pathetic attempt at a "gotcha," which (as I just said) fails to actually rebut anything I said.

Who am I kidding? There's as much chance of you completely reading and responding to a post as there is for you to start using a question mark.

 

[carlitos]

Four, count 'em, four logical fallacies in a single post!

DOC, you really need to get your money back for that logic course you claim to have taken.

Hey, at least he answered the question, after all the runaround and logical fallacies. Take what you can get.

 

[Lothian]

Well the New Testament (centered around the life of Christ) has over 5000 manuscripts in existence and Caesar's supposed book Gallic Wars (which was never illegal to own) has 10.

Please let me know if you think this is evidence that the NT writers told the truth. Otherwise I will assume you accept it is just another fallacy you are putting out there for all to see.

Also I've personally seen the testimony of probably at least 75 people on the positive life changing affect of Christ on their life and have never seen any about the affect of Caesar on their lives.

Please let me know if you think this is evidence that the NT writers told the truth. Otherwise I will assume you accept it is just another fallacy you are putting out there for all to see.

Also the book centered around the life of Christ is the greatest selling book in history by most accounts.

Please let me know if you think this is evidence that the NT writers told the truth. Otherwise I will assume you accept it is just another fallacy you are putting out there for all to see.

Additionally the religion based around the life of Christ has endured for 2000 years and is the largest religion in the world.

Please let me know if you think this is evidence that the NT writers told the truth. Otherwise I will assume you accept it is just another fallacy you are putting out there for all to see.

I know of know religion based on Caesar's life. So my answer is just Jesus.

Please let me know if you think this is evidence that the NT writers told the truth. Otherwise I will assume you accept it is just another fallacy you are putting out there for all to see.

 

[joobz]

Well the New Testament (centered around the life of Christ) has over 5000 manuscripts in existence and Caesar's supposed book Gallic Wars (which was never illegal to own) has 10. Also I've personally seen the testimony of probably at least 75 people on the positive life changing affect of Christ on their life and have never seen any about the affect of Caesar on their lives. Also the book centered around the life of Christ is the greatest selling book in history by most accounts. Additionally the religion based around the life of Christ has endured for 2000 years and is the largest religion in the world. I know of know religion based on Caesar's life. So my answer is just Jesus.

Well, Jesus never ran an empire.
Jesus wasn't on currency.
Jesus doesn't have a salad named after him.
George Clooney doesn't have a Jesus Hair cut.

 

[carlitos]

Actually, Jesús Salad was a boxer. I think he may have been WBC champ for a while sometime around the year 2000.

 

[Ichneumonwasp]

Actually, Jesús Salad was a boxer. I think he may have been WBC champ for a while sometime around the year 2000.

What kind of haircut did he have?

 

[DOC]

Posted by carlitos

Thanks for posting that DOC. I found it very interesting.

Now, are you claiming that both Jesus and Caesar were Gods, or just Jesus?

Well the New Testament (centered around the life of Christ) has over 5000 manuscripts in existence and Caesar's supposed book Gallic Wars (which was never illegal to own) has 10. Also I've personally seen the testimony of probably at least 75 people on the positive life changing affect of Christ on their life and have never seen any about the affect of Caesar on their lives. Also the book centered around the life of Christ is the greatest selling book in history by most accounts. Additionally the religion based around the life of Christ has endured for 2000 years and is the largest religion in the world. I know of know religion based on Caesar's life. So my answer is just Jesus.

Four, count 'em, four logical fallacies in a single post!

DOC, you really need to get your money back for that logic course you claim to have taken.

Actually I took philosophy 101, of which logic was a part of, and I received an A.

For the most part I can't talk to non-believers in here in spiritual terms so I talk in numbers and facts that the average person can understand. You can talk about fallacies until you're blue in the face but the average everyday person will look at the facts I mentioned and I know it will make them wonder why this man named Jesus in a small far off Roman province caused everything I mentioned.

And I might have wrongly given the impression (in the post above) that the facts I mentioned were the "only" reason I believe in Christianity -- in that case they would be a fallacy if they were the "only" reason. But anyone who has read all the other information I've given in my 2000 posts in this thread knows that they are not the only reasons I believe in Christianity.

 

[joobz]

For the most part I can't talk to non-believers in here in spiritual terms so I talk in numbers and facts that the average person can understand.

I talk in facts as well:
Fact: Your "facts" are irrelevant to the argument you are making.

You can talk about fallacies until you're blue in the face but the average everyday person will look at the facts I mentioned and I know it will make them wonder why this man named Jesus in a small far off Roman province caused everything I mentioned.

Fact: One person has admitted to be turned away from christianity because of you.
Fact: No one has claimed to have been converted or even swayed by your poor arguments.

And I might have wrongly given the impression (in the post above) that the facts I mentioned were the "only" reason I believe in Christianity -- in that case they would be a fallacy if they were the "only" reason. But anyone who has read all the other information I've given in my 2000 posts in this thread knows that they are not the only reasons I believe in Christianity.

FACT: All* of those other "reasons" you have given are fallacy laden illogical arguments as well.


*By all, I mean all arguments you have tried to make. Any claim that you have made about believing because you have faith are not included in that list.