Jewish dance group stoned in Hanover, Germany

[bigjelmapro]

Some children of middle eastern immigrants to Germany threw pebbles at a dance troupe of native German Jews (that did Jewish traditional dances?) that was introduced as Israeli. One of the dancers was slightly injured as a result.

Don't see mentioning of 'peddles'. Why can't one do traditional dances of one's religion and/or country?

This is a hate crime, pure and simple.

This sounds like an unfortunate event. It sounds less unfortunate than if the dancers had been stoned as the thread title suggests. It also sounds less unfortunate than if the dancers had been thrown at by adults. And it sounds like the troupe may possibly have been thrown at because the children, based on information from parents, were upset with Israeli policies and they saw these dancers as representatives of the people that they felt were mistreating fellow Muslim middle easterners.

Playing the role of apologist here too I see. Yelling 'Juden Raus' is not a display of being upset by Israeli policies.

So we have the use of the innocuous term of 'peddles' and here, 'children'. There were children (minors) involved, but to say that only minors were involved is a stretch.

So once again a misleading thread title manages to suck me in, but in this case I am happy that the situation was so much less bad than I had imagined based on the thread title.

I think you're the one doing the misleading.

 

[DC]

Don't see mentioning of 'peddles'. Why can't one do traditional dances of one's religion and/or country?

This is a hate crime, pure and simple.


Playing the role of apologist here too I see. Yelling 'Juden Raus' is not a display of being upset by Israeli policies.

So we have the use of the innocuous term of 'peddles' and here, 'children'. There were children (minors) involved, but to say that only minors were involved is a stretch.


I think you're the one doing the misleading.

in the German press, and CE linked to one, they actually say it were pebbles.
and yes it were not only kids, it was a group of people aged 9 to 19, so the 19 year olds were indeed not children anymore, according to the law.

 

[bit_pattern]

There's a more lawful resolution to this situation, for those stone trowers to be thrown in jail.

Lobbing explosives from 10,000kms in the air? A-OK. Lobbing stones from 50m away, a priceless example of asymmetrical warfare and terrorism in action, we must kill your women and children!

 

[DC]

Lobbing explosives from 10,000kms in the air? A-OK. Lobbing stones from 50m away, a priceless example of asymmetrical warfare and terrorism in action, we must kill your women and children!

so you support collective punishment?

 

[bit_pattern]

so you support collective punishment?

No. Rather the subtle nuance of sarcasm in the English language must have beguiled you!

 

[ddt]

Yes, an automated translation algoryhtm is so flawless...

So many things can be lost in the details.

That or you have to rely on others to provide the details. I, for one, am loathe to do lest I be accused of ulterior motives in the selection thereof.

I think that's how WWI was started.

Then you really should crack open a history book.

 

[WildCat]

No, Wildcat. Its not ironic. They were described as "Israeli dancers".

Not in the link given in the OP.

 

[WildCat]

No, that doesn't make it "OK", *********. That puts it in context.

edit: the kids are from lebanese, iranian and palestinian immigrant families.

Oh, you can't hold those mud races to the same standards as white people.

 

[DC]

Oh, you can't hold those mud races to the same standards as white people.

why do you always feel that need to put words in other peoples mouth?
or let it look like they say something they clearly did not say?

straw fetish?

 

[davefoc]

Don't see mentioning of 'peddles'. Why can't one do traditional dances of one's religion and/or country?

Your attempt to twist what I said so as to satisfy your need to feel wronged is noted. No one in this thread or anyone else has said that anybody should not be allowed to do their native dance.

This is a hate crime, pure and simple.

OK, are all hate crimes the same? Are some less bad than others?

Playing the role of apologist here too I see. Yelling 'Juden Raus' is not a display of being upset by Israeli policies.

I'm not excusing the actions of anybody here. I don't think people should throw pebbles at other people. I don't think dancers should have pebbles thrown at them because a crowd is doesn't like the actions of a country that the dancers are associated with. If the actions of the crowd were motivated by anti-Jewish feelings and not anti-Israeli feelings that is a sadder situation to me and I'm even more sorry that the event occurred. One difficulty here is that whether they want it to be so or not Jewish people are going to be associated with the actions of Israel. That is unfortunate. Obviously Jewish people do not monolithically support the actions of the Israeli government. Many Israelis don't support the actions of the Israeli government for that matter.

So we have the use of the innocuous term of 'peddles' and here, 'children'. There were children (minors) involved, but to say that only minors were involved is a stretch.

One of the earlier posts said that the word in the German article translated to pebbles. If the children through rocks instead of pebbles that is much worse. Was the translation posted in an earlier post wrong? As I recall from an earlier post the people doing the throwing ranged from 9 to 15 years. I characterized them as children although I'll admit that a few of them were out of the age range for the normal use of the word children.

I think you're the one doing the misleading.

I'm not misleading anybody intentionally. For the record, I wasn't there. I don't speak German, I haven't read the original article. I am not claiming special knowledge of the event. My characterization of the event was a summary of what the situation seemed to be based on the content of this thread.

 

[Pardalis]

Lobbing explosives from 10,000kms in the air? A-OK. Lobbing stones from 50m away, a priceless example of asymmetrical warfare and terrorism in action, we must kill your women and children!

What on earth are you talking about?

Aren't you posting in the wrong threat again?

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Just because someone is Jewish does not automatically mean that they are from Israel, anymore than being Muslim makes one a terrorist. In the 1930s the progressives marched alongside Jews against the blackshirts. Now we live in more 'enlightened' times, the progressives march alongside the blackshirts against the Jews. Why, because we live in a world where the comment 'I'm surprised Yugoslavia held together as long as it did after the death of Tito' can be greeted with 'Who's Tito?'...

Well to be fair, he was overshadowed by Michael. I am however saddened at the news of his passing.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Your attempt to twist what I said so as to satisfy your need to feel wronged is noted. No one in this thread or anyone else has said that anybody should not be allowed to do their native dance.

That's why I put it in question format.

OK, are all hate crimes the same? Are some less bad than others?

Not getting into an argument about the levels of a hate crime, just stating that it is.

I'm not excusing the actions of anybody here. I don't think people should throw pebbles at other people. I don't think dancers should have pebbles thrown at them because a crowd is doesn't like the actions of a country that the dancers are associated with. If the actions of the crowd were motivated by anti-Jewish feelings and not anti-Israeli feelings that is a sadder situation to me and I'm even more sorry that the event occurred. One difficulty here is that whether they want it to be so or not Jewish people are going to be associated with the actions of Israel. That is unfortunate. Obviously Jewish people do not monolithically support the actions of the Israeli government. Many Israelis don't support the actions of the Israeli government for that matter.

The anti-semitic slurs still makes the hate crime a wholesale attack against Jews. Even if its a subset hate crime against Israelis doesn't make it less worse and a justified means of protest from their standpoint (or 'tension' as you put it in that other thread).

Not turning this into an argument about whether all Jews support the Israeli government either. This is just as peculiar an argument as Americans being pelted by stones in a foreign country, by Japanese for American involvement in Japan. (Correlation, not strawman)

In the Islamic uhmmah, there's often no distinction between being anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, or anti-Jewish.

One of the earlier posts said that the word in the German article translated to pebbles. If the children through rocks instead of pebbles that is much worse. Was the translation posted in an earlier post wrong? As I recall from an earlier post the people doing the throwing ranged from 9 to 15 years. I characterized them as children although I'll admit that a few of them were out of the age range for the normal use of the word children.

Selective translation. "Kieselstein" is a type of rock, says nothing about the size.

Some pictures:
http://static-p1.artedona.com/z1/c22206.jpg
http://www.hallmann-informatik.de/images/10_Kieselsteinerot.jpg
http://www.news-on-tour.de/wp-conte...sters_hockenheim_2009/58_gtm09_03_1624_33.jpg

Breach of rule 5 removed. Do not hotlink images from other sites without permission.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

Stein, is the same meaning in Dutch, and that's 'stone'. Just for the sake of the argument, I would use the term stone rather than judging its size by using the term pebble.

I'm not misleading anybody intentionally. For the record, I wasn't there. I don't speak German, I haven't read the original article. I am not claiming special knowledge of the event. My characterization of the event was a summary of what the situation seemed to be based on the content of this thread.

So you did it unintentionally. The end result is still the same: misleading.

 

[DC]

That's why I put it in question format.


Not getting into an argument about the levels of a hate crime, just stating that it is.


The anti-semitic slurs still makes the hate crime a wholesale attack against Jews. Even if its a subset hate crime against Israelis doesn't make it less worse and a justified means of protest from their standpoint (or 'tension' as you put it in that other thread).

Not turning this into an argument about whether all Jews support the Israeli government either. This is just as peculiar an argument as Americans being pelted by stones in a foreign country, by Japanese for American involvement in Japan. (Correlation, not strawman)

In the Islamic uhmmah, there's often no distinction between being anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, or anti-Jewish.


Selective translation. "Kieselstein" is a type of rock, says nothing about the size.

Some pictures:
[qimg]http://static-p1.artedona.com/z1/c22206.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.hallmann-informatik.de/images/10_Kieselsteinerot.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.news-on-tour.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/06___Juni/2009_06_07_adac-gt-masters_hockenheim_2009/58_gtm09_03_1624_33.jpg[/qimg]
Stein, is the same meaning in Dutch, and that's 'stone'. Just for the sake of the argument, I would use the term stone rather than judging its size by using the term pebble.


So you did it unintentionally. The end result is still the same: misleading.

Kieselsteine in German does indeed say a lot about the size.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korngröße

ETA:
just as it seem to be in english............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_size_(grain_size)

who is misleading?

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

I've never seen Neo-Nazis and right-wing Uber-Zionists grouped together before, by the way. Sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.

A Neo-Nazi, an Über-Zionist and a vegetarian walks into a Jew...

...ish delicatessen - one of them orders a pastrami on white bread...

 

[Thunder]

Oh, you can't hold those mud races to the same standards as white people.

very unneccessary sarcasm.

and yes, many people do hold the USA, Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Israel, to a much higher standard than secular dictatorships and religious extremist regimes.

would you have it any other way? should we hold ourselves to the same standards as we would Ghana, Nigeria, Afghanistan, and Saudi Arabia?

that...would be pretty frightening.

 

[ddt]

Selective translation. "Kieselstein" is a type of rock, says nothing about the size.

Some pictures:
[qimg]http://static-p1.artedona.com/z1/c22206.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.hallmann-informatik.de/images/10_Kieselsteinerot.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.news-on-tour.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/06___Juni/2009_06_07_adac-gt-masters_hockenheim_2009/58_gtm09_03_1624_33.jpg[/qimg]
Stein, is the same meaning in Dutch, and that's 'stone'. Just for the sake of the argument, I would use the term stone rather than judging its size by using the term pebble.

I'm confused why you throw in Dutch. This thread is about an incident in Germany. The cited articles are in German. And "Stein" is indeed a German word.

As to your first picture: great way to try to mislead us with a photo of three relatively small pebbles taken with a macro lens.

Kieselsteine in German does indeed say a lot about the size.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korngröße

ETA:
just as it seem to be in english............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_size_(grain_size)

who is misleading?

Using these links: the German word "Kieselstein" means a size between 2 mm and 63 mm. The English word "pebble" a size between 4 mm and 64 mm. So yes, the German word gives more leeway - as to its minimum size.

So you did it unintentionally. The end result is still the same: misleading.

Nothing misleading about davefoc's summary. It was an accurate rendering of the events.

 

[rwguinn]

I'm confused why you throw in Dutch. This thread is about an incident in Germany. The cited articles are in German. And "Stein" is indeed a German word.

As to your first picture: great way to try to mislead us with a photo of three relatively small pebbles taken with a macro lens.



Using these links: the German word "Kieselstein" means a size between 2 mm and 63 mm. The English word "pebble" a size between 4 mm and 64 mm. So yes, the German word gives more leeway - as to its minimum size.

I can't think of anyone (other than a landscaper) who considers >2 inches (51mm) as a "pebble"
(unless it is the State of Colorado, which considers pea gravel as "sand")

Nothing misleading about davefoc's summary. It was an accurate rendering of the events.

 

[ddt]

I can't think of anyone (other than a landscaper) who considers >2 inches (51mm) as a "pebble"
(unless it is the State of Colorado, which considers pea gravel as "sand")

Neither does the German word "Kieselstein" or the Dutch word "kiezelsteen" conjure up such sizes with me.

 

[Thunder]

i'd still like to know why the Israeli dancers, did not just throw rocks right back at them?