A Solution in Search of a Problem.

Synchronicity?

As I opened this thread, wondering what it was about, I was watching Craig Ferguson in the middle of an interview with James Dyson.

They'd just finished playing with the fan gadget.

It sure looked neat, but if the thing costs $200, ... it wasn't that neat.
 
Finally.

When I think of all the things I might have done, heights I might have scaled, contributions to the good of my fellow man I might made, if it weren't for the unpleasant buffeting of bladed fans...

Sure it's too late now for me and my generation, too late to go back and erase the scars, all those summers of being unpleasantly buffeted by whatever science gone mad gave birth to that scourge of the modern age, the bladed fan; but for the next generation, spared the trauma, the terror that with each heat wave must come another round of incessant, subhuman, merciless torture at the unpleasantly buffeting blades of a traditional fan, what wonders await...

God bless you, James Dyson.
 
Putting blobru on ignore was the best decision of my life.

That, and buying this new fan.
 
It would appear the fanless fan has a fan.

Gizmodo review

One has to wonder if it isn't a fraud. Think I'll wait for the physics folks to weigh in.


Why?

Did you read the article you cited? It explains exactly how it works.

James Dyson doesn't exactly have a rep for being a fraud in the first place. He does have a rep as a very successful industrial designer with unquestionable engineering creds. Some might even count him as one of the "physics folks" (if you include 'applied physics' ...:boxedin:)

Whether or not it's worth the premium price is a different issue, but in a world with $6000 Gucci handbags it's a pretty moot one. The product does what it claims it will do. It does it in a straightforward fashion that anyone can work out for themselves. I don't see how that can be fraudulent.
 
It would appear the fanless fan has a fan.

Gizmodo review

One has to wonder if it isn't a fraud. Think I'll wait for the physics folks to weigh in.
its not advertised as a fanless fan, its advertised as a bladeless fan, its also advertised to be a similar to a turbocharger, which is probably whats in the base there

whether that still counts as "bladeless" could be debated, but i think its a reasonable enough statement to not be fraud
 
Why?

Did you read the article you cited? It explains exactly how it works.

James Dyson doesn't exactly have a rep for being a fraud in the first place. He does have a rep as a very successful industrial designer with unquestionable engineering creds. Some might even count him as one of the "physics folks" (if you include 'applied physics' ...:boxedin:)

Whether or not it's worth the premium price is a different issue, but in a world with $6000 Gucci handbags it's a pretty moot one. The product does what it claims it will do. It does it in a straightforward fashion that anyone can work out for themselves. I don't see how that can be fraudulent.
Oh, I read it. Have you read some of the hilarious comments?


At most there could be some physics to narrowing the outlet thus increasing the pressure of the exiting air. I'm not impressed that a clever marketer made the up name of "air multiplier" to sell this fan as some new kind of physics discovery.

Had it been marketed as a fun design (safe to put your face in, neat paper airplane launcher, something to mystify your friends), then the marketing would not be deceptive. But if you make the fake claim it is a "bladeless" fan, (which BTW is not true, the fan in the base has blades of some kind - it's a fan!), and convey the image of some new physics application to air movement, it's a fraud, plain and simple.

Someone mentioned the Ionic Breeze in this thread. That product is a total fraud and collects about as much dust from the air as the static cling on a TV screen. (See the consumer reports review of the Ionic Breeze if skepticism and common sense are not sufficient for your confidence in my claim.)

As for Dyson's inventions, a "bagless vacuum" is not an improvement. Vacuums collect the finest of dust particles and the bag is important to contain those particles when you go to dump it. You cannot empty a bagless vacuum cleaner indoors unless you want to vacuum the mess after your done.

His second marketing ploy is to claim the bagless version "doesn't lose suction". Modern vacuums don't lose suction until the bag is full. Dyson's vacuum is no different because it has no bag. Regardless, at least one of his models, if he has more than one, has really poor suction.

The flexible handle (his ball jointed vacuum) has a small benefit. It's amazing no one invented that one before him.

What Dyson is good at, just like Ron Popeel, is TV marketing. He's very good at it, but he's not any kind of genius inventor. I fear, my friend, you've been sucked in. ;)
 
its not advertised as a fanless fan, its advertised as a bladeless fan, its also advertised to be a similar to a turbocharger, which is probably whats in the base there

whether that still counts as "bladeless" could be debated, but i think its a reasonable enough statement to not be fraud
TurbochargerWP
A turbocharger is a small radial fan pump driven by the energy of the exhaust gases of an engine. A turbocharger consists of a turbine and a compressor on a shared shaft. The turbine converts exhaust heat and pressure to rotational force, which is in turn used to drive the compressor. The compressor draws in ambient air and pumps it in to the intake manifold at increased pressure, resulting in a greater mass of air entering the cylinders on each intake stroke.
What you have in a turbocharger is a lot of energy used to compress air.

What you have with a Dyson fan (maybe) is a tad of air compression in that the FAN in the base sucks in air through a bigger inlet than the ring outlet. It's a unique fan for the appearance of it. It's not an "air multiplier". "Gruntmaster 6,000" comes to mind. :D
 
Consumer Reports review of the fan

The design is unique and novel. The fan is a fan.
Air is drawn into the base and pushed into the round ring, and accelerates as it exits. Dyson says the technology "amplifies surrounding air."
That's a fancy way of saying the fan sucks air in through a larger inlet than the outlet it pushes the air out of. Basic physics.

But the tiny bit of air compression (if there even is any) is not anything special in terms of the physics of air movement.
Generally, panelists found that the Dyson generated a smooth, uninterrupted airflow, but they felt that one of our comparison fans did that, too; and most panelists found those two fans equally pleasing.

Easier to clean, a conversation piece because of the unique look, sure. But the rest, look behind the curtain, Toto. :)
 
Dyson's next breakthrough: a toilet with kneeler and handles to counter the effects of unpleasant buffeting.
 
Maybe this fan will find a market among rich parents with stupid but curious toddlers.
 
....
James Dyson doesn't exactly have a rep for being a fraud in the first place. He does have a rep as a very successful industrial designer with unquestionable engineering creds. ....
I became curious about this so read a bit more on the guy. So here's a summary of the highlights from Wiki. He's a billionaire. No question the guy is a successful businessman and marketer. And he has engineering credentials.

He does have a couple simple designs you have to wonder why no one beat him to them. Those would be some kind of a ball and socket wheelbarrow and some similar devices like the vacuum handle with a similar design. He designed a water feature where the water appears to flow up, and a very fast speedboat.

His hand dryer does just what the fan seems to do. The hand dryer forces air through a very small aperture making it is essentially an air compressor.

So the guy is not an engineering fraud. But his inventions also don't rely on any kind of physics or engineering breakthroughs. The inventions rely on taking the initiative to do things you wonder why no one else did yet. This is not a bad thing. Good for him.


But my beef comes from marketing this stuff as engineering breakthroughs and promoting features by using misleading catch words (bladeless air multiplier) and gimmick sales pitches (claiming the average vacuum loses suction when a full bag or a full bagless compartment would lose suction power equally). I have a pet peeve regarding fabricated claims used as marking gimmicks to mislead consumers.

Why not just market this as a cool new fan design? Why make up a fake story about hundreds of engineers creating a breakthrough in fan design? That is the problem I have with this guy. It isn't just that the fan's price is marked up 500%. Heck, he could sell his elite design for whatever he wants. But Dyson is marketing this to people with the claim it "amplifies the air". That's akin to calling an air compressor an air amplifier and implying it is an engineering breakthrough.
 
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i have seen one in a department store,i thought its output was very weak compared to my old fan,which as a lady of a certain age,i have to have on all night.
the noise doesn`t stop me sleeping...nor the buffeting...although that could be why i ended up on the floor last week.
it was very expensive too.
 
Oh, I read it. Have you read some of the hilarious comments?


Snide is easy. We've got a whole forum of people right here who do it without any effort at all. Fun, and often meaningless.
At most there could be some physics to narrowing the outlet thus increasing the pressure of the exiting air. I'm not impressed that a clever marketer made the up name of "air multiplier" to sell this fan as some new kind of physics discovery.


Me either. Of course that's what marketers are paid to do. Happens in toothpaste commercials too.

Show me where Dyson personally claims it is "some new kind of physics discovery."

Had it been marketed as a fun design (safe to put your face in, neat paper airplane launcher, something to mystify your friends), then the marketing would not be deceptive. But if you make the fake claim it is a "bladeless" fan, (which BTW is not true, the fan in the base has blades of some kind - it's a fan!), and convey the image of some new physics application to air movement, it's a fraud, plain and simple.


Playing nitpick games with semantics. There has been no effort to pretend that the base contains no fan. It's quite obvious to anyone who isn't looking to pick a fight (or perhaps brain-dead) which fan blades are being referred to. If you personally are unsure of the difference try sticking a cat's tail through the delivery system of a conventional fan.
Someone mentioned the Ionic Breeze in this thread. That product is a total fraud and collects about as much dust from the air as the static cling on a TV screen. (See the consumer reports review of the Ionic Breeze if skepticism and common sense are not sufficient for your confidence in my claim.)


They did, but it isn't clear why, except for effect. The "Ionic Breeze" clearly did not do what it claimed to do. By comparison this gizmo claims to move air without large fan blades buffeting that air to push it at you. It does that.

It may not be a great leap forward, but then neither are Gucci handbags.
As for Dyson's inventions, a "bagless vacuum" is not an improvement. Vacuums collect the finest of dust particles and the bag is important to contain those particles when you go to dump it. You cannot empty a bagless vacuum cleaner indoors unless you want to vacuum the mess after your done.


Funny about that. It was the "bagless" feature which made his vacuum cleaner one of the most popular in the UK.

Do you remember when vacuum cleaner bags weren't disposable. I do. They were no fun to empty, either. Less, if truth be told.
His second marketing ploy is to claim the bagless version "doesn't lose suction". Modern vacuums don't lose suction until the bag is full. Dyson's vacuum is no different because it has no bag. Regardless, at least one of his models, if he has more than one, has really poor suction.


Too bad Hoover didn't have the benefit of your engineering and marketing wisdom. They wouldn't have had to lose that $5 million in court for stealing his design.

The flexible handle (his ball jointed vacuum) has a small benefit. It's amazing no one invented that one before him.

What Dyson is good at, just like Ron Popeel, is TV marketing. He's very good at it, but he's not any kind of genius inventor. I fear, my friend, you've been sucked in. ;)


You've been sucked in by (or are sucking in) something if you think I have made him out to be "any kind of genius inventor". All I did was question your apparently unsupported description of him as a "fraud". He's had some good 'out of the box' ideas. He has employed basic science in innovative ways. Without resorting to the sort of petty semantic literalism that you have used concerning "fan blades" I think you will find it difficult to demonstrate that his products do not perform fundamentally as he claims they do.

Comparing him to Ron Popeil is a bit of a cheap shot . Popeil got an Ig Noble Prize (which isn't even all that ignoble). Dyson got elected to the Royal Academy of Engineers.

And knighted.

The fan is a neat idea. It's cute, and there seems to have been a decision made to offer it in a certain market. Initially. As is usually the case with these sorts of products I expect it will gradually (soon?) find its way into less pricey niches.

Ho hum.

There's been as much "spin" expended in trying to find ways to denigrate this toy as there has been to sell it. Maybe more.

I suspect that they are profoundly grateful for all of the assistance with their publicity campaign.
 
If it was reasonably priced I'd buy one because you can dust it easily.

Well, you can dust the outside easily. But the impeller is internal. Won't that collect dust? And won't that be harder to clean than external fan blades? In fact, it looks like it might even do what the Dyson vacuum is supposed to be famous for not doing: losing performance as dust builds up.
 

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