Sylvia Browne: Linda Rossi interview

Seconded, O Booful one! I am also surprised that Brattus' behavior here seems to have not merited some Moderation.

Others (including me) have been suspended for far less. I don't know how close Brattus came to "libel", but he crossed the line of civility several times, as much as calling ExM a liar.

Thank you, both of you.

I wonder if others here have thought these things about me, too. That's one reason I took the time to write all that out.

What is wrong with believing in a afterlife?

Nothing.

You did address this to Brattus, though. His opinion may differ drastically.

I just wanted to respond to this for the sake of people who may be here to read about Sylvia Browne and will benefit from knowing that skepticism does not require any particular set of religious or spiritual beliefs or the absence of them.
 
What I want to know is, why should Ex-M have had to fight her way through this prolonged personal attack from Brattus? Challenging, arguing, are part of the everyday banter in these forums. What Brattus did was attack a member of this forum. He wasn't challenging a statement, he wasn't arguing a point, he flat-out said Ex-M was a certain type of person and he made no bones about how he felt about this type of person. To my knowledge he has never met Ex-M, so because he thinks he knows what went on or what is going on in her mind makes him sound . . . well . . . like a psychic.

I am amazed he was allowed to come so close to libel without (as far as I can see) so much as a warning from the Moderating Team.

You are attacking me lady!
I did not attack EX! I was making statements about the general fools who follow Sylvia Browne and her like.

If you don't like my post then don't read them! Better yet put me on ignore!
I did not call EX a liar or anything else. That is why no mod as said anything to me.
I simply stated my belief that EX did know SB was lying about everything if even on an subconscious level and choose SB lies over someone else's.

I personally have no doubt that EX is a very nice person that would be fun to hang and converse with.

I clearly stated I was not calling her stupid. Everyone of us has our own stupid things in our past we had to work through.

I think what flips your switch about me is the fact that I think the entire stopsylvia website was a well written waste of time.

I read post on here giving RSL credit for SB money troubles. LOL!
She is old and near death and not "working" any where near as much.

SSbers are all about being open minded as long as everyone thinks like they do.
As soon as someone dare say anything different than the truth comes out.
 
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He wasn't challenging a statement, he wasn't arguing a point, he flat-out said Ex-M was a certain type of person and he made no bones about how he felt about this type of person. To my knowledge he has never met Ex-M, so because he thinks he knows what went on or what is going on in her mind makes him sound . . . well . . . like a psychic.

Yeah....he kind of did do that....

One thing everyone should try to avoid is claiming to read the thoughts, motivations, or feelings of others.....it's better to simply ASK the person then to assume you know or can "figure them out".
 
Brattus, I want to mention one more thing since you asked about this. How is it possible to be around someone like Sylvia Browne and not figure out right away that she isn't psychic?

Because Sylvia Browne made it clear back then that she is not psychic for herself or for people she is emotionally close to. She used to joke about how she would say, "How are you?" to someone at a party, and invariably some wiseguy would say, "Well, you should know!" As a result, and conveniently for her of course, none of us expected her to be psychic for herself, or even for us. Does that make more sense?

Now I get all snarky about that because it was just a ruse. I know, d'oh. It's a sneaky way to distract people from the fact that she isn't really psychic. I've even heard other psychics mimic her on this. They know a good thing when they hear it, right?

But that's now. Back then I trusted her.

Now, I have a little more to say with regard to the lying issue and how I came to trust her.

I have been thinking about this, and I realize that partly Sylvia Browne won me over with kindness. Twenty years ago a reading cost $400 and lasted 45 minutes or so, and by the end of my first reading with her she knew that my best friend had died, my relationship had just ended, I was in a rotten job with no money, just this lonely young girl living by herself in a one-bedroom apartment... I think she just felt sorry for me. I don't know but she invited me to attend her trance classes for free. Mr. ExM, who knew her better than I did, said he doesn't recall her having done that for anyone else. But for whatever reason, she did that for me. To repay her kindness, I volunteered in the offices. I know I've mentioned this here before, but she was very close to my husband. She eventually made us ministers for free - another gift to us, though that was years later. She did readings for me for free during those early years, just taking me aside and sitting me down somewhere when she could see I was struggling - something else my husband said she rarely ever did.

The fact is, I thought she wasn't a very good psychic because she got a lot wrong. Then again, she DID say she couldn't read for those of us she was close to, and the only errors I knew about were in the readings of people close to her. I thought her actions to be kind of unspiritual at times, to put it mildly. We left the church the first time around in a big mess of a drama, which we attributed to Sylvia having let her personal feelings get in the way of her objectivity. I won't go into all of that.

Her behavior, it turns out, was inexcusable. But I had to be 100% sure of my position before I could take the stance I took and continue to take here on this forum, because I did consider her a friend, at the very least someone who had always been kind to me, until I found out the truth. Really, there was no other conclusion to reach: A person faking trances is a person who is actively deceiving people. The end. A person lying on TV, within hearing of her own ministers who KNOW she is lying, is a person who can't be trusted. The end. Period.

The fact is, a person who lies and deliberately deceives you is NOT a friend, and that is not kind. BTW, I didn't have the benefit of Robert's web site at this time, as it was just going up around the time I resigned. Having that, of course, would have helped.

Also, just for the record, I say nothing here on this forum that I wouldn't say directly to her face-to-face. That's a rule that I live by.

For a long while, I would actually waver occasionally with all of this. Some memory would come up and I would start thinking, "Well, what if she really was sincere? What if she didn't mean to hurt anyone?" My husband, who had been way closer to her than I was, would then get all disgusted and say, "Sheesh, think of the trances. The lying on TV. Shawn Hornbeck!! Opal Jo Jennings!" And it would be like a slap in the face with reality. My husband, for his part, never wavered. For him, betrayal is betrayal, and he has remained totally and completely furious and disgusted with her, without any doubt whatsoever.

Those years of wavering are long gone, I'm happy to say. And at no point has ANY of this been intended as a defense of Sylvia Browne.

At any rate, that's the deal with Sylvia Browne and my experience with her.

And it didn't stop there. No, I really liked Robert Lancaster and the way he thought. Thanks to him I got hooked on this forum, the rationality, the logical arguments, the critical thinking. I asked RSL if he could recommend a few skeptical books. He suggested Carl Sagan's Demon-Haunted World and James Randi's books. I ordered them and read them in a week and then I bought more. I haven't stopped reading skepticism and science since.

Believe me, if I could be content to live a lie, I would not be here right now. I would not have turned into this skeptic that my family and friends don't quite know what to do with. I know most everyone wishes I was like I was before. :( Believe me when I say it would have been so much easier to maintain the status quo.

I've been saying for years, "I just want to know the truth." It's ultimately turned me into a skeptic! Who would have thought it? So it's kind of funny that you bring this up, Brattus.

All right. I'm done rambling on about myself in a thread that is supposed to be about Linda Rossi and not me. Unless someone asks me something else that requires a lengthy answer, I promise to stop rambling. :)
 
ExM, you touched on something there which I was going to ask you:

If you feel comfortable sharing it with us, please tell us what your newfound skepticism has cost you in terms of your relationships with family and friends. I think it might help some here to gain some perspective on why it was not as simple a choice as they might think.
 
I can only guess, the reason people follow Browne is because they are trying to find answers to a higher power which is nothing wrong with that.
Problem is, they get see someone claiming to be a medium who can talk to the dead, and after making it seem like she is for real, gullible people would follow him/her. Not everyone knows about typical fraud stuff such as cold reading.
If I didn't did some reading on SSB.com about this sort of thing, I probably wouldn't know what cold reading is and how it is used. No average human who is ether a fan of Browne or not, would take the time to research how it is done.
Am I in the ballpark here?
 
I can only guess, the reason people follow Browne is because they are trying to find answers to a higher power which is nothing wrong with that.
Problem is, they get see someone claiming to be a medium who can talk to the dead, and after making it seem like she is for real, gullible people would follow him/her. Not everyone knows about typical fraud stuff such as cold reading.
If I didn't did some reading on SSB.com about this sort of thing, I probably wouldn't know what cold reading is and how it is used. No average human who is ether a fan of Browne or not, would take the time to research how it is done.
Am I in the ballpark here?

Not only in the park - you are rounding third and heading for home!
 
You are attacking me lady!
I did not attack EX! I was making statements about the general fools who follow Sylvia Browne and her like.

If you don't like my post then don't read them! Better yet put me on ignore!
I did not call EX a liar or anything else. That is why no mod as said anything to me.
I simply stated my belief that EX did know SB was lying about everything if even on an subconscious level and choose SB lies over someone else's.

I personally have no doubt that EX is a very nice person that would be fun to hang and converse with.

I clearly stated I was not calling her stupid. Everyone of us has our own stupid things in our past we had to work through.

I think what flips your switch about me is the fact that I think the entire stopsylvia website was a well written waste of time.

I read post on here giving RSL credit for SB money troubles. LOL!
She is old and near death and not "working" any where near as much.

SSbers are all about being open minded as long as everyone thinks like they do.
As soon as someone dare say anything different than the truth comes out.

If it wasnt SSB.com I wouldn't of learn how cold reading is done, nor did I learn what kind of fraud Browne is.
If it helped ONE person from spending money on a fraud like SB, it served a great purpose.
Why do you even care of RSL chooses to run a website that takes on frauds?
 
Not only in the park - you are rounding third and heading for home!

Not only that, people who are missing loved ones who are desperate to find out what happened will sometimes turn to mediums, such as Marc Klass who consulted Sylvia Browne, and you can't blame them.
If I was in Marc Klass's shoes, I would proberly be doing the same thing like many others I'm sure and that is one reason why Browne has been in bussiness.
Where am I wrong here?
 
Sylvia says that she can't "read" anyone close to her, or herself. I can understand this to some extent, but what about people she is not close to? People she barely knows? That must be exhausting to be "on" all the time. In any social situation, in the elevator, at the grocery store, her kids teachers ect... If she were real then that would mean everywhere she went and everyone she met their lives would be totally open to her.

Every crime they were involved in. All the lies they told. Their future ect....

I remember something that Mark Edward always says, "if this were possible they would be the most dangerous person alive, every military would HAVE to have them. All courts, police department, employers ect would not be able to function without them."

I remember something else from SkeptiCal, some guy was saying that if psychics were real, why aren't they riding along with police officers in a patrol car. They could pull over anyone who was thinking about committing a crime, and also those that had something to hide. I guess it would be like that movie "Unbreakable" where Bruce Willis just has to stand still and let people bump into him and suddenly he would see the crime they have committed. He waited through stories of Date Rape, Thief and so on until someone bumped into him that was holding a whole family hostage. Crazy.


Okay, now I'm rambling...
 
Not only that, people who are missing loved ones who are desperate to find out what happened will sometimes turn to mediums, such as Marc Klass who consulted Sylvia Browne, and you can't blame them.
If I was in Marc Klass's shoes, I would proberly be doing the same thing like many others I'm sure and that is one reason why Browne has been in bussiness.
Where am I wrong here?

I didn't know that Klass consulted Browne? Do you have proof of this? I genuinely would like to know this. On his site he has a whole thing about how psychics are the second wave of predictors.
 
I spoke with Klaas about Browne. He railed on psychics in general, but said nothing about ever having consulted Browne.
 
I didn't know that Klass consulted Browne? Do you have proof of this? I genuinely would like to know this. On his site he has a whole thing about how psychics are the second wave of predictors.

Second wave of predators. Sorry
 
ExM, you touched on something there which I was going to ask you:

If you feel comfortable sharing it with us, please tell us what your newfound skepticism has cost you in terms of your relationships with family and friends. I think it might help some here to gain some perspective on why it was not as simple a choice as they might think.

This really is an emotional and complicated topic, and here it will probably cause me to ramble on again.

Quite a few people have abandoned me, and that has hurt. For awhile I was really afraid that everyone would. I was scared that I would lose everyone I loved, because the person they knew was all about spirituality.

I was the person you could talk to about most anything metaphysical or psychic or spiritual, and I could help you understand it, develop it, see the meaning in it. After so many years, I thought I had things mostly figured out. That probably sounds so arrogant, but really I wasn't. It had taken me a long time and lot of searching to reach that point. I believed I received spiritual guidance through my dreams, some of it quite powerful and profound, most of it boiled down to living with compassion and love, and I really tried to live it. People said I was the most spiritual person they knew. Someone I love once said they envied me my faith and assurance.

So fast forward to the present and I'm a skeptic about things that used to define my existence.

Granted, I'm a work in progress, as we all are.

I don't believe that being a skeptic means you have take a stance against all things paranormal or spiritual. For me it means approaching the issues by being as well as informed as possible and looking at them critically. Some things I used to believe in were completely debunked (astrology as one example) and so I'm no fun anymore when it comes to that stuff. It's uncomfortable for some people, annoying for others. Some people I think believe that I've lost my way. That does hurt. Especially during moments of self-doubt, when I miss the old me and am feeling as though I don't know which side is up. Those moments are getting fewer and farther between, though.

My best friend of 25 years has stood by me, though. She told me recently that the defining factor of my life, in her eyes, is that I've always approached things with kindness and gentleness. I think she once said she relied on me for truth, and now she is happy to explore truth from this more skeptical angle, too. I am grateful for her!

I've gotten to where I understand who in my life wants to hear it and who doesn't. I'm learning to bite my tongue occasionally, to find my way.

I don't think I'm a usual case. Even my husband once said that I was the only person he'd ever known whose life was totally dedicated to God. It really was my whole life. Most people were probably put off by it. Unless you also were dedicated to a spiritual path, you wouldn't have had much in common with me. So, you can see why my changing would be significant. I was not an average, balanced person, spiritual but still living a materialistic life. I was the sort of person who would have been in a convent if she hadn't been raised with alternative spiritual views.

Even recently when my grandmother died, my mother called and asked, "Have you heard from her yet?" That is what people expected from me. My mom seems to think that this is a temporary phase, but she's very stubborn. I always said I was about as psychic as a doorknob, but darned if weird things didn't sometimes happen that made me seem psychic (I know, it's statistically expected).

That's all I'll say for now. There has been heartbreak, but there has also been support.
 
This really is an emotional and complicated topic, and here it will probably cause me to ramble on again.

Quite a few people have abandoned me, and that has hurt. For awhile I was really afraid that everyone would. I was scared that I would lose everyone I loved, because the person they knew was all about spirituality.

I was the person you could talk to about most anything metaphysical or psychic or spiritual, and I could help you understand it, develop it, see the meaning in it. After so many years, I thought I had things mostly figured out. That probably sounds so arrogant, but really I wasn't. It had taken me a long time and lot of searching to reach that point. I believed I received spiritual guidance through my dreams, some of it quite powerful and profound, most of it boiled down to living with compassion and love, and I really tried to live it. People said I was the most spiritual person they knew. Someone I love once said they envied me my faith and assurance.

So fast forward to the present and I'm a skeptic about things that used to define my existence.

Granted, I'm a work in progress, as we all are.

I don't believe that being a skeptic means you have take a stance against all things paranormal or spiritual. For me it means approaching the issues by being as well as informed as possible and looking at them critically. Some things I used to believe in were completely debunked (astrology as one example) and so I'm no fun anymore when it comes to that stuff. It's uncomfortable for some people, annoying for others. Some people I think believe that I've lost my way. That does hurt. Especially during moments of self-doubt, when I miss the old me and am feeling as though I don't know which side is up. Those moments are getting fewer and farther between, though.

My best friend of 25 years has stood by me, though. She told me recently that the defining factor of my life, in her eyes, is that I've always approached things with kindness and gentleness. I think she once said she relied on me for truth, and now she is happy to explore truth from this more skeptical angle, too. I am grateful for her!

I've gotten to where I understand who in my life wants to hear it and who doesn't. I'm learning to bite my tongue occasionally, to find my way.

I don't think I'm a usual case. Even my husband once said that I was the only person he'd ever known whose life was totally dedicated to God. It really was my whole life. Most people were probably put off by it. Unless you also were dedicated to a spiritual path, you wouldn't have had much in common with me. So, you can see why my changing would be significant. I was not an average, balanced person, spiritual but still living a materialistic life. I was the sort of person who would have been in a convent if she hadn't been raised with alternative spiritual views.

Even recently when my grandmother died, my mother called and asked, "Have you heard from her yet?" That is what people expected from me. My mom seems to think that this is a temporary phase, but she's very stubborn. I always said I was about as psychic as a doorknob, but darned if weird things didn't sometimes happen that made me seem psychic (I know, it's statistically expected).

That's all I'll say for now. There has been heartbreak, but there has also been support.

When people ask me of what use is this skepticism stuff, I point them to posts like this.
 
This really is an emotional and complicated topic, and here it will probably cause me to ramble on again.

That's all I'll say for now. There has been heartbreak, but there has also been support.

Thanks for sharing that, ExM - it could not have been easy.

It seems to me that you have been, and continue to be, a Seeker of truth. And you have been strong enough to follow it to places you did't expect it to take you. I'm glad you have at least some friends from the old days who still support you. And of course you have your new, skeptical friends who value your thoughts now.

And of course you have Mr. ExM.

Know that Susan and I value your friendship and will continue to do so no matter where your search takes you.

RSL
 
When people ask me of what use is this skepticism stuff, I point them to posts like this.

That is one of the greatest things you could possibly say. Thank you.

Thanks for sharing that, ExM - it could not have been easy.

It seems to me that you have been, and continue to be, a Seeker of truth. And you have been strong enough to follow it to places you did't expect it to take you. I'm glad you have at least some friends from the old days who still support you. And of course you have your new, skeptical friends who value your thoughts now.

And of course you have Mr. ExM.

Know that Susan and I value your friendship and will continue to do so no matter where your search takes you.

RSL

Your and Susan's friendship means the world to me.

Thanks, RSL.
 
That is one of the greatest things you could possibly say. Thank you.

On the contrary, I must thank you. Your search for what is true, honest, shames me into continuing my own, rather than becoming lazy and cynical. RSL's battles have a similar effect. I hope you and he inspire others as well.
 

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