Ed Rob Menard's FOTL Claims

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Can someone, very concisely, lay out what this guy is after and what his 'society' is about?

I clicked on the website main page and went instantly snow blind.

There were some kind of blocks of text with nonsense, seemingly written by a child, and my brain and eyes signed a pact to stop processing it.

As I read trash sci-fi for fun, this is quite an achievement in of itself. Maybe he could make money writing unbreakable code for secret documents?
 
jargon buster said:
Do you want to post that on my new forum or can I post it with your blessing?
http://freemantruthmovement.co.cc/forum.php

Regards JB/Asky
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You can feel free to post it wherever youd like I'd love to join your forum, I just have to many forums to keep track of as it is. Of course, since you consent to statue law :D I don't have to worry about you stealing my ideas like I would a freeman.
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
Can someone, very concisely, lay out what this guy is after and what his 'society' is about?

I clicked on the website main page and went instantly snow blind.

There were some kind of blocks of text with nonsense, seemingly written by a child, and my brain and eyes signed a pact to stop processing it.

As I read trash sci-fi for fun, this is quite an achievement in of itself. Maybe he could make money writing unbreakable code for secret documents?
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Its quite a challenge to condense this level of woo into a concise statement of belief, but here is my attempt:

Freeman on the land is a belief system that says we are all subject to a massive, international conspiracy perpetrated by the legal system. Since its inception, the legal system has existed solely to keep us down and for the profits of the elites. Courts are set up only to suppress our natural freedom by not telling us that there is a difference between human beings and persons. Persons are legal fiction straw mans that are separate from flesh and blood human beings. What the court doesn't tell you is that you can decline to consent with ALL statue law because you are a human being and not a person. The only type of law freeman human beings are subject to is common law, which has actually nothing to do with common law as the sheeple know it but instead a nebulous concept of natural law where one only has committed a crime if a direct, attributed harm can be done to them.

What this all means, practically, is that freeman on the land do not have to pay any of their obligations (taxes, credit cards, mortgages, etc.) because we were all deceived (see: transnational global plot mentioned in first sentence) and there are Latin legal maxims that say the man can't do that to us. It also means freeman on the land are not subject to any law where they do not directly harm someone. For example, in the freeman world, drunk driving is allowed and not discouraged because no harm is caused by drunk driving until you kill someone. It is only after you kill someone by drunkg driving that you have committed a freeman offense against the common law (which in their world is again just some odd notion of natural law and nothing like real common law).

And those are just the basics. It is truly one of the most inane woo beliefs out there, in my opinion.The basic thing is that they think they cannot be held to ANY law without their consent.
 
Don't forget the 'Bond'
When you are born you are given a Birth Certificate. This is traded as a Stock, If you know how you can claim your 'Bond' the money thet your 'Stock' is valued at.
Your Birth certificate is actualy your 'Person'


Add in the idea that US courts are actualy 'Admiralty' courts with no juristiction on a Freeman 'On the Land' If you go into the court and 'cross the bar' you enter their ship and give them juristiction over you.

It's all to do with some strange theory that the USA is still subject to the British Crown. (But its a secret)
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Don't forget the 'Bond'
When you are born you are given a Birth Certificate. This is traded as a Stock, If you know how you can claim your 'Bond' the money thet your 'Stock' is valued at.
Your Birth certificate is actualy your 'Person'


Add in the idea that US courts are actualy 'Admiralty' courts with no juristiction on a Freeman 'On the Land' If you go into the court and 'cross the bar' you enter their ship and give them juristiction over you.

It's all to do with some strange theory that the USA is still subject to the British Crown. (But its a secret)
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Yep, those are very important core points to this mythology. Thanks for reminding us - as I said, there is so much woo in FMOTL that sometimes its hard for me to keep track of it all ;).

The FMOTLers believe these birth certificate bonds are worth millions and were sold by all world governments in evil plot to enslave them. What they are doing in reality is entering the government codes on their birth certificates (varies by jurisdiction) and occasionally one of them will match a mutual fund number, since there are so many mutual funds out there. When this happens, they proclaim they have found "proof." FMOTL leaders like Menard claim they can access the bond and will gladly tell you - for a $250 fee. Of course, if he knew how to do this and if it were real he could claim his own bond and offer all this knowledge for free.

The admiralty thing is probably the funniest because it leads to the most bizarre behavior in court interactions that ALWAYS leaves the freeman in a worse state than he was before. Simple parking tickets and drug possession charges turn into contempt of court and result in maximum penalties and jail time because the woos refuse to acknowledge the judge, try to demand the judge recite their oaths right then and there in front of them, file hundreds of pages of frivolous legal documents that have no legal impact (Notice of Intent, Claim of Right, etc.), etc.
 
LightinDarkness: thank you for the explanation.

Whew!

So, they're like the folks who think we don't need to pay federal taxes, but with massive head trauma.
 
Sledge said:
A little further Googling shows one of them got nine life terms plus sixty years. If you consider they faced the death penalty, I guess that could almost sorta be a victory? :confused:
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Yeah, the article noted that they drug out so many FMOTL arguments that prosecutors began to worry about time. Since, the level of evidence you'd need for the death penalty is very high (as it should be), the longer the court went through each and every frivolous legal woo motion the more time was expiring and peoples memories of events/police officers involved were retiring.

If it is one thing I do give FMOTL credit for, its delaying tactics. The court is so astounded at the level of stupidity in the arguments they often have to reschedule the case so the judge can figure out how to respond politely. I guess when it comes to capital punishment, delaying worked out this time. In other cases, delaying only tends to make the judge angry and end up in a harsher sentence though.

I'm sure now that were talking about it we'll find the woos on the DI or WFS forums talking about how this case was a victory because they ended up not getting the death penalty.
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
LightinDarkness: thank you for the explanation.

Whew!

So, they're like the folks who think we don't need to pay federal taxes, but with massive head trauma.
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I love that description! Yes, pretty much - and not just federal taxes, ANY tax or monetary obligation (credit cards, mortgages, loan payments, etc.).

Some people here have started referring to them as Freeloaders on the Land because of it, since essentially they tell you they have no trouble BENEFITING from government (many receive welfare/food stamp benefits), they just decline "consent" to pay anything into the system.
 
LightinDarkness said:
Some people here have started referring to them as Freeloaders on the Land because of it, since essentially they tell you they have no trouble BENEFITING from government (many receive welfare/food stamp benefits), they just decline "consent" to pay anything into the system.
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My 3 year old is much the same.

I'll be sure not to keep him in a box till he's 21, and he should grow out of it.
 
Well done JB and Light - good of you to use their own 'fails' to point out the stupidity of their woo and to protect people from using this nonsense and damaging their lives
 
Menard, St Clair & John Harris & all the other prominent FMOTL 'leaders' should be named & shamed as much as possible.

They make money out of the naive & desperate people who come to them for help. Their 'legal advice' is worse than useless because more often than not their 'knowledge' gets their unfortunate clients into a worse mess than they were in beforehand. FMOTL theories appeal to some of the more unattractive traits in human nature - greed, deception, fraud, irresponsibility, stupidity. It's out of order to cash in on this kind of thing.
 
gtm said:
Menard, St Clair & John Harris & all the other prominent FMOTL 'leaders' should be named & shamed as much as possible.

They make money out of the naive & desperate people who come to them for help. Their 'legal advice' is worse than useless because more often than not their 'knowledge' gets their unfortunate clients into a worse mess than they were in beforehand. FMOTL theories appeal to some of the more unattractive traits in human nature - greed, deception, fraud, irresponsibility, stupidity. It's out of order to cash in on this kind of thing.
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i don't think they make any real money. I would bet that very few people actually buy manards package and just watch his routine on youtube.
I do care how it affects the nutters who try it, in fact i love it. Go to court, wave your wand and watch as your sentence or fine gets bigger, it's great. No, what bugs me is they think they are clever, think they are spiritual, think they, and only they, have special knowledge and you, as a thinking person who requires hard evidence, are a brainwashed slave.
Manarad knows it's all nonsense but tries to keep up his spiel, it's all he's got.
 
BobHaulk said:
i don't think they make any real money. I would bet that very few people actually buy manards package and just watch his routine on youtube.
I do care how it affects the nutters who try it, in fact i love it. Go to court, wave your wand and watch as your sentence or fine gets bigger, it's great. No, what bugs me is they think they are clever, think they are spiritual, think they, and only they, have special knowledge and you, as a thinking person who requires hard evidence, are a brainwashed slave.
Manarad knows it's all nonsense but tries to keep up his spiel, it's all he's got.
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Ray St Clair is a notorious conman involved with a a veritable legion of collapsed companies & seriously ****ed off creditors. FMOTL is just another tool to pull the suckers in for him. Previously he was involved in selling lottery 'systems', titles of nobility & direct marketing.

John Harris is a less unsavoury character but does get paid to deliver speeches on his researches at 'woo' conferences. Aside from that he's a blithering idiot who can barely string a sentence together.

Menard is small fry compared the 1st 2 examples.
 
gtm said:
Ray St Clair is a notorious conman involved with a a veritable legion of collapsed companies & seriously ****ed off creditors. FMOTL is just another tool to pull the suckers in for him. Previously he was involved in selling lottery 'systems', titles of nobility & direct marketing.

John Harris is a less unsavoury character but does get paid to deliver speeches on his researches at 'woo' conferences. Aside from that he's a blithering idiot who can barely string a sentence together.

Menard is small fry compared the 1st 2 examples.
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They do provide great comedy. Much better than the 9/11 woo's.
If Heineken did conspiracies it would be the fmontl conspiracy
 
No he means Heineken. In the UK there was a series of ads based around 'If Heineken did X it would be the best X in the world'
 
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