Public Nudity acceptable or not?

[Jekyll's Guest]

It's the sick need to go around looking for things to be outraged about that horrifies me. Peering in windows and looking over walls to find objectionable things.


My wife and I just got back from house sitting. The place has a pool, and I mostly swam 'au naturel'.

I didn't parade around the yard or anything, no putting one foot up on a wall and waving to the neighbors. I'd simply slip off my clothes right by the pool and slip in, then grab a towel on exiting.

While shamefully drying myself, hiding behind a pillar, I thought about the reaction should a neighbor happen to spot me somehow, and got myself quite annoyed.

Male nudity is pushed as some kind of sick, sexualized state. People seeing a naked woman may perhaps be mildly upset, but nothing like the offense, and probable legal intervention that would be caused by seeing a naked man. It's like the naked male state is automatically equated with perversion, whereas a naked woman is more 'natural'.


My wife and I have a little toddler, and he'll often share a bath with one of us. I guarantee there are lots of people who wouldn't bat an eyelid of a little boy bathing with mommy, but would see something suspect or deviant in him bathing with daddy.


Sorry if this is a bit of a tangent, just a brain dump really. On OP, I'm against nudity in truly public places, but think the way we treat nudity on private property is ridiculous. I don't see any reason for being naked at McDonalds, whereas you shouldn't have to slink out of the shower in case next door is having a birthday party.

In my opinion we shouldn't go out of our way to be nude or clothed, and be more easy going about the overlaps.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

The point of this rambling anecdote is that 'nudists' are not necessarily de-sexualised.

It sounds like it was a gay sex pick-up spot that happened to be warm enough for going nude and sun bathing.

Gay guys often hooked up in parks, that doesn't equate to a link between going to the park and sex orgies.

 

[JJM 777]

In hundreds of visits to nude beaches, I have never seen an erection. Never.

Reason: erection is strictly forbidden and socially stigmatized at nude beaches. Men do their best to avoid it, and those who cannot, go away and stay away.

 

[quarky]

Reason: erection is strictly forbidden and socially stigmatized at nude beaches. Men do their best to avoid it, and those who cannot, go away and stay away.

Interesting way to look at it.
Being seen naked is less deviant than being seen naked with sexual innuendos.
For this reason, nude beaches are probably the least sexy beaches, and the most wholesome places for kids to swim.

 

[Mirrorglass]

Interesting way to look at it.
Being seen naked is less deviant than being seen naked with sexual innuendos.
For this reason, nude beaches are probably the least sexy beaches, and the most wholesome places for kids to swim.

I don't know about your area, but here, erections are frowned upon on normal, clothed beaches as well. Or pretty much anywhere where they are clearly visible.

 

[slingblade]

Reason: erection is strictly forbidden and socially stigmatized at nude beaches. Men do their best to avoid it, and those who cannot, go away and stay away.

I was under the impression that most men are not consistently in control of this reaction.

 

[quarky]

One of the local swimming holes I used to frequent was mostly nude, but there would often be a few lurkers that would oogle the naked babes from a distance. They always kept their pants on, which hid their 'attitude'. its much easier to get away with lust when you have pants. Nudity in public dispels the lust.

 

[quarky]

I was under the impression that most men are not consistently in control of this reaction.

That's why we think about baseball so much.

 

[luchog]

If a clothed person has bad hygiene, it will smell bad/make things miserable for a while, but when they leave, the smell should dissipate.

If a nudist has bad hygiene (especially in the bathroom...e.g. doesn't wipe properly, or if they're male they don't, ahem, shake) then that material can potentially be left behind on bus seats (or, if its crowded, on the clothing of people they're pressed up against). I suspect that there would be much less chance of transfer if the individual were wearing at least underwear.

You clearly haven't spent much time on busses frequented by the homeless.

They tend to leave stuff behind regardless of how much clothing they wear. Like the one who walked off the bus leaving his seat soaking wet. On a sunny, dry day.

 

[luchog]

If a clothed person has bad hygiene, it will smell bad/make things miserable for a while, but when they leave, the smell should dissipate.

If a nudist has bad hygiene (especially in the bathroom...e.g. doesn't wipe properly, or if they're male they don't, ahem, shake) then that material can potentially be left behind on bus seats (or, if its crowded, on the clothing of people they're pressed up against). I suspect that there would be much less chance of transfer if the individual were wearing at least underwear.

You clearly haven't spent much time on busses frequented by the homeless.

They tend to leave stuff behind regardless of how much clothing they wear. Like the one who walked off the bus leaving his seat soaking wet. On a sunny, dry day.

My opinion is that as gross as that is, someone farting on a bus seat sans clothing would be worse.

Two words: "Tuberculosis". Read that again.

I happen to live on the edge of one of the worst tuberculosis hot spots in the US. Every wonder why so many cities have laws prohibting spitting on the sidewalk? I'll give you a hint, it's not about the aesthetics.

 

[luchog]

Just a nitpick, although I agree with the rest of your post, I disagree with that paragraph. At 4 and 6 years difference my sisters and me had "acquaintance" with various such a persons, one masturbating openly in a car near a school (like, the otehr side of the street), and two being naked under a parka (exhibitionist). One of them was arrested (car number was noted) I dunno for the others guys. So it does not seem to be so rare as you might think, or even be coward, as you have to have balls to masturbate in your car near a school, or show yourself naked to children. Or maybe my sisters and me were at a school/city which sucked (pun unintended).

You yourself already made my point for me. "Exhibitionist". It was the fact that he could expose them to something they normally wouldn't see that was a large part of the turn-on. And you noted that at least one of them was caught and arrested; which is a point I already made in my post -- if they're actively engaged in "questionable" activity, they will be noticed and action taken. Simply being naked wasn't the issue, the issue was explicitly sexual activity. I already pointed out that difference.

 

[elgarak]

The point of this rambling anecdote is that 'nudists' are not necessarily de-sexualised.

Neither are they automatically sexualized just because they are nude.

Neither are clothed people automatically de-sexualized.

 

[Naddig74]

Neither are they automatically sexualized just because they are nude.

Neither are clothed people automatically de-sexualized.

Agreed.

 

[slingblade]

You clearly haven't spent much time on busses frequented by the homeless.

They tend to leave stuff behind regardless of how much clothing they wear. Like the one who walked off the bus leaving his seat soaking wet. On a sunny, dry day.

That's a symptom of something besides homelessness. The condition of being without a home doesn't cause one to soil him- or herself.

I get really tired of the stereotypes attached to people without a conventional home. It's bigotry.

 

[Naddig74]

That's a symptom of something besides homelessness. The condition of being without a home doesn't cause one to soil him- or herself.

I get really tired of the stereotypes attached to people without a conventional home. It's bigotry.

Got to agree with that. When I was homeless I managed to stay clean and continent.

 

[Mirrorglass]

I was under the impression that most men are not consistently in control of this reaction.

Most of us do have some decree of control over it. And besides, nude beaches aren't really that sexy if you don't purposefully think of them as such.

 

[slingblade]

Most of us do have some decree of control over it. And besides, nude beaches aren't really that sexy if you don't purposefully think of them as such.

Yes, that's why I said "consistently." Though such control is usually possible, I'm sure there are some moments when it takes, well, everyone by surprise.

And from what I understand, the younger one is, the less consistent control there is. I'm sure practice makes better, if not perfect.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

I find this thread interesting. There is a clear difference in opinion between the Western Europeans--to whom nudity is largely a non-issue--and the North Americans, to whom it is a matter of privacy.

I am in favor of discretion and privacy in personal matters. This is increasingly out of fashion--whether it is the jerk who feels it's appropriate to discuss their latest date on the cellphone (at high volume) in the bathroom stall, or the people who find it convenient to change their child's diaper on the playground equipment's slide instead of seeking a bathroom or using a grassy patch away from the other kids. The idea that certain activities and aspects of life are private and that others may wish to not be subjected to them is fundamental to my idea of courtesy; yet it is often disregarded by others.

I don't want to worry about my daughter having to deal with naked people going about her normal daily life. We've already discussed nude beaches and how to act at the changing room at the local pool--don't stare and go about your business--and that she is to keep certain areas private except from people like doctors. The occasional flash of nudity as people are changing clothes at skating competitions or the like is going to occur, but it's not a big deal. The point of our discussions is that such things are not to be shared with the general public.

There is an underlying hostility here to the notion that people may choose not to be exposed to others' bodies. There are a number of places where nudity is allowed, and some where it is virtually mandatory; naturists are welcome to these places. What a prior poster wrote notwithstanding, it's not illegal or even frowned-upon (in my experience) for somebody to swim in their own pool or sunbathe in their own backyard naked, as long as you have a fence. Again, it's an issue of private versus public property.

While I have seen a post saying that nudity in public is 'protecting the minority', what about my right to NOT have your naked buttocks soiling the parkbench my taxes pay for maintenance on; to NOT have my kid have you parade your privates in her face (literally, given the height most young kids are); to be able to enjoy the park without being forced to check each nude approacher for whether they seem to be just enjoying the air, or trying to get their jollies from showing my child their member?

Public spaces are, by definition, to be shared. That generally means that all need to behave in a way that is likely to be inoffensive to others, which may mean not doing all that one might wish, out of respect for others' right to enjoying the space as well. This is the principle behind not being allowed to have your rock band practice in the gazebo, even if you rent it; behind not letting dogs wander unleashed; behind not spitting or throwing garbage wherever you find convenient, but only in an appropriate spot. (To the poster who thinks that spitting in the street is okay: Carry tissue. Yes, it's inconvenient, but you're a grownup and you can do it if you try.)

I don't find nudity inherently shameful, nor do I find it particularly interesting; but I do know that where people's tolerance for it falls varies greatly from person to person. I will therefore behave in a way that does not make others uncomfortable while I am in public spaces. I oppose publically-owned nude beaches for the simple reason that we don't have enough beaches for those who want to use them as it is; why should we functionally drive those who don't want a dip in the lake to be an anatomy lesson away from what their taxes fund? Note that it is not offensive to those who might skinnydip otherwise to have to wear a suit, merely a touch inconvenient.

I think America has a lot of hangups about sex, but I think public nudity is not the solution, nor even a good first step. I think "public" life should be inoffensive to the degree that that can reasonable be managed. I encourage civility, consideration, and courtesy in our dealings with each other.

Just my thoughts, MK

 

[Mirrorglass]

Yes, that's why I said "consistently." Though such control is usually possible, I'm sure there are some moments when it takes, well, everyone by surprise.

Indeed. Eyes have been lost.

And from what I understand, the younger one is, the less consistent control there is. I'm sure practice makes better, if not perfect.

In this case, enough decades of practice does tend to make one completely perfect. Strangely, though, the men who've reached this level are seldom happy about it.

 

[23_Tauri]

Tasering someone for public nudity seems like a clear case of taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut (or two)