Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[zooterkin]

DOC does appear to believe that irrelevant fact are evidence,

Oh, yes. You probably already know this, but joobz started a thread on that very subject.

 

[kmortis]

Oh, yes. You probably already know this, but joobz started a thread on that very subject.

<sniff> Good times, good times.

joobz, has your knee recovered from that thread?

 

[Waterman]

Oh, yes. You probably already know this, but joobz started a thread on that very subject.

Reading now... It all seems so vaguely familiar, this was before my arrival. <sigh> Well you have to give him points for consistency. Those are the only points he is successfully making. I hold no illusions, I post for my personal satisfaction and any lurkers out there that may be watching. Plus the occassional pat on the head is nice too.

 

[kmortis]

Reading now... It all seems so vaguely familiar, this was before my arrival. <sigh> Well you have to give him points for consistency. Those are the only points he is successfully making. I hold no illusions, I post for my personal satisfaction and any lurkers out there that may be watching. Plus the occassional pat on the head is nice too.

/me pats Waterman on the noggin

Good, Waterman...

 

[DOC]

*facepalm*

I realize you know little about theology, or religions that don't happen to be Christian, but would you at least read the fracking articles you link to?!?!?! Is that really too much to ask?

Rabbi Kaplan is not talking about "oral tradition" in pre-literate societies. He was speaking of rabbinic interpretation of Torah - an oral tradition which was eventually written down in texts like the Talmud, Midrash, Mishnah, and so forth.

You only had to read as far as the second sentence to know this:



This is not about the passing of oral history. This is about rabbinic Judaism and the role Talmudic teachings play in Judaism.

In other words - you are misrepresenting what the Rabbi said. You are, again, being dishonest.

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

 

[paximperium]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

Actually. Yes. So?

 

[kmortis]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

It's more telling that at some point, one of the rabbis said "Oy! We should write this down."

 

[Waterman]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

As a historical document you are correct, it has little validity particularly the further back in time you go. As a collection of legends and lore of the ancient peoples of that period it is very informative on how they lived thier life and what they thought. Like the bible teh talmud does have some good sentiments mixed in with the less pleasant elements.

 

[carlitos]

Almost every society on earth has a flood story that was first passed on by oral tradition, and then at some point it was written down. Here is the one from Michoacan, Mexico.

When the flood waters began to rise, a man named Tezpi entered into a great vessel, taking with him his wife and children and diverse seeds and animals. When the waters abated, the man sent out a vulture, but the bird found plenty of corpses to eat and didn't return. Other birds also flew away and didn't return. Finally, he sent out a hummingbird, which returned with a green bough in its beak.

ETA - Here's another Mexican one I like, because it has a monkey. Monkeys make a story better.

A man was surprised to find his fields overgrown after clearing them the previous day. He spied and found a monkey was responsible. The monkey told him that God didn't want him to work because a flood was coming, and it gave him instructions for building a coffinlike craft. The man built the box and got into it, and when the flood came, the monkey rode atop it. When the flood subsided, the man got out and built a fire to cook some fish he found. But the Almighty, irritated with him for building the fire, appeared and turned him into a monkey

They are nice stories. They don't prove anything though.

oops - link

 

[Hokulele]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

Whenever DOC makes a post starting with "So then...", you can always be sure that it will be a textbook example of failure in reading comprehension.

 

[joobz]

<sniff> Good times, good times.

joobz, has your knee recovered from that thread?

I'm feeling really slow on the ball, cause I don't get you.

That thread does bring up memories.

Perhaps we can start talking about Elvis again.

 

[Cleon]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

So then it would seem you again responded to my post without bothering to read it. Much like you didn't bother reading the article you linked to.

"Oral Tradition" in the Talmudic sense - rabbinic interpretation of Torah - and "oral tradition" in the sense you are using it, that of history passed through generations, are completely different concepts.

In fact, the historicity of the Talmud is considered to be rather irrelevant, even among the ultra-Orthodox. Whether the stories actually happened as told or are apocryphal is beside the point; the point is what they teach about Torah.

So if you think you have a point here, you're not barking up the wrong tree; you're yapping at a telephone pole.

This is why it's a bad idea to talk about subjects you clearly have no knowledge of. Why you persist in doing so is a mystery even the Rambam couldn't answer.

 

[kmortis]

I'm feeling really slow on the ball, cause I don't get you.

That thread does bring up memories.

Perhaps we can start talking about Elvis again.

either That Or A Bizarre Attempt At Fulfilling Godwin's Law.

Since Yours Requires A Better Than Average Understanding Of Particle Physics, And Mine Reflects A Knee-jerk Reaction...i'm Voting For My Explanation.

Hitler!!!


ow, I just injured my knee.

Does that refresh the memory?

 

[joobz]

Does that refresh the memory?

Oh....yah!!! DOC used to link to WHite power websites.

 

[Simon39759]

So then it would seem your opinion would be that the Talmud isn't worth much since it is largely based on oral tradition that is hundreds of years old.

Regardless of the fact that you seem unaware of the existence of the Gemara; your equivocation also grossly misrepresent the oral Torah.
As we know that the oral Torah had a ritual part in its transmission. There was an actual, dedicated effort to the perfect memorization of the Torah as part of the religious practice which, certainly, would have reduced the drift.
Nonetheless, yes; the Talmud, the early one in particular, is considered to be a pretty unreliable historical source.


And, before you make **** up, as I am sure you will be tempted to do, no we don't have any indication that such a tradition existed in early Christianity. In reality, the practices described in the Acts of Apostles, were Paul is converted suddenly and wanders from place to place, never setting down for the years required to learn or pass on a perfectly memorized tradition, proscribed such practices...



ETA: Duh; Cleon beat me to the punch; but at least, my explanation is a bit more detailled...
Cleon? You are in Atlanta? Are you a member of the Atlanta Skeptics? I was there for their Skepticamp a few weeks ago...

 

[Hokulele]

So if you think you have a point here, you're not barking up the wrong tree; you're yapping at a telephone pole...

...wearing a tinfoil hat so the EM radiation doesn't damage his delicate neural connections.

 

[kmortis]

...wearing a tinfoil hat so the EM radiation doesn't damage his delicate neural connections.

Didn't an MIT grad student show that the TFH actually amplified the CIA mind control rays?

 

[Rincewind]

Hey DOC - try this one, you never know it might work....

Richard Dawkins has written about the Bible.

Therefore the New Testament writers must have told the truth....

(Well, it's as logical as other statement he's made)

 

[Toke]

Didn't an MIT grad student show that the TFH actually amplified the CIA mind control rays?

I have read of such a study, the amplification or protection depended on the frequencies and angles in use.

It did amplify cellphone radiation, I do not know about the cia stuff.

 

[kmortis]

I have read of such a study, the amplification or protection depended on the frequencies and angles in use.

It did amplify cellphone radiation, I do not know about the cia stuff.

Well, of course in the report they talk about cell phones and such. But we all know that that's just a cover for "CIA mind control rays". It's not like the Company will give a researcher a MCR to play with, ya know.