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Ed All 43 videos "Second Hit"" [Explosion]at WTC 2: Plane or No Plane?

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We are now almost at the midway point of the ALL43 videos, Twinstead. Ask yourself, how many of them record a jetliner sound? Answer, none.

You can clearly hear the sound of a jet airliner at 2:16 and 5:50 into the video. Most of the other parts of the up to this point were from television broadcasts from the studio (hint: they do not play the sound from the live feed while the anchors are talking). The rest are from so far away, it would be impossible to hear the planes.


Come back to reality.
 
You can clearly hear the sound of a jet airliner at 2:16 and 5:50 into the video. Most of the other parts of the up to this point were from television broadcasts from the studio (hint: they do not play the sound from the live feed while the anchors are talking). The rest are from so far away, it would be impossible to hear the planes.


Come back to reality.

The above is a substantive reply that adds to the quality of the discussion. It has been awhile since a poster other than yours truly has made an actual reference to the content of the ALL43 videos. I was wondering when someone would do that. :p

As to your overall excuse making for the videos as a whole, I think you are engaging in improper rationalization. Each of the segments needs to be viewed to determine what its merits are, without a bias towards explaining away (rationalizing) the probems they entail in terms of whether they can be said to accurately depict a jetliner crash. They do no such thing. Instead, they depict a pyrotechnical display. That is the point of the them.

OK, the video at the 2:16 mark is number 9 in the sequence.

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43title/th_9--swifty.png?t=1276602621

The shadow thingy does come in swiftly and the sound of explosion is quite discernible. This one runs from about 2:14-2:27. It sounds like window glass breaking. There is a background hist that I assume is what you mean when you say there is jetliner noise. However, that hiss does not correlate with the crash, in that it continues after the crash. The hiss is not loud enough to be the jet engine sound of a Boeing 767@550mph from as close as that camera appears to have been. Further, all of the other problems with the pyrotechnical display are seen in this version too, including the explosion in the wrong place and the paper debris and fizzling out in midair of the flares that were a part of the display.

The second video referenced begins at the 5:40 mark and is number 25.

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums...milartobestanglemoneyshot541.png?t=1276603361

It begins at about 5:41 and goes to about 5:52. It is one of the better ones in that it does have some semblance of sound, but the sound is nowhere near loud enough to be a Boeing767@550mph. This version has all the well known visual problems that confirm that what is seen is not an actual jetliner.

Thanks again for your post. It is appropriate to take a look at the video segments, compare them, contrast them and view them from a perspective of asking "what is seen; what is heard" from a rational perspective.
 
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Hey Lurkers,

Note the irony. On the page that features one of the most telling of all of the videos, the one taken by Evan Fairbanks, himself a legitimate eyewitness, AJM chooses to re-post the "1000s of witnesses" mantra that posters here no longer even try to prove.

They believe there are "1000s of witnesses" just because and that is all the reason they need. I have said many times, I don't question people's beliefs. People are free to believe there are "1000s of witnesses" as long as they can.

See, there's your problem. Let's expand on just because:

We believe it just because this incident occurred during the Manhattan morning commute. There would've been thousands on the streets.

We believe it just because people from WTC 1 and some of the fortunate ones from WTC 2 evacuated from their buildings, putting thousands more on the streets.

We believe it just because there are thousands more who lived and worked in close proximity to the World Trade Center. Thousands saw it from their windows.

We believe it just because if you hand wave away all of the above, you're still talking about two planes crashing in New York City, one of the most populated cities in the world. Thousands would've witness it is a gross understatement.

We believe it just because these are facts, they are irrefutable and cut right to the heart of your hallucination.

I could go on but I'm sure you won't get the point.

On a personal note, Something you may not be aware of is in my line of work, commercial real estate, I've not only worked along side people from Manhattan who were there and saw it with there own eyes, I've also met SURVIVORS from the towers themselves, who in fact saw it with their own eyes. Many companies that had offices destroyed or put idle by the attacks relocated some of their employees elsewhere, a lot of them to San Francisco. I met most of them in September of 2001 and since then many more over the years, and I believe them. Just because. :rolleyes:
 
See, there's your problem. Let's expand on just because:

Let's see if you expand or not on "just because."

We believe it just because this incident occurred during the Manhattan morning commute. There would've been thousands on the streets.

That observation does not expand anything at all and leaves the matter firmly in the just because realm; that is, in the realm of irrational belief. Your observation is hopelessly flawed as a matter of reason, but perfectly acceptable as a matter of belief. For purposes of reason you are not permitted to assume what hasn't been shown to exist. Showing that there are many people in Manhattan does not show anything at all about what they saw and heard.

We believe it just because people from WTC 1 and some of the fortunate ones from WTC 2 evacuated from their buildings, putting thousands more on the streets.

The above is more of the same and expands not one iota the reason for your belief. Once again, I do not question your belief. You can believe as you see fit. What you cannot do is say that your belief is based on rational reason-based observation. And, your statement as quoted above fully confirms that you do not have any reason whatsoever for your belief where "reason" is understood to be a criterion based on provablilty.

We believe it just because there are thousands more who lived and worked in close proximity to the World Trade Center.

The above fails and fails utterly to establish a reason for your belief.

Thousands saw it from their windows.

You cannot, have not and will not prove the above statement. It is false for failure of proof. You can believe it all you want to; but, you cannot and will not prove it.

We believe it just because if you hand wave away all of the above, you're still talking about two planes crashing in New York City, one of the most populated cities in the world. Thousands would've witness it is a gross understatement.

I would think that by now your post is becoming painful for you. You have not even attempted to offer rational, reason-based proof of your assertion of belief in the "1000s of witnesses" claim. You believe it just because and that is basically all you are repeating, time and time again.

As a matter of fact, your post is a complete failure.

We believe it just because these are facts, they are irrefutable and cut right to the heart of your hallucination.

Once again, if it will provide you with any needed comfort, AJM, just take it easy. I do not question your belief. You can believe there are "1000s of witnesses" to jetliners hitting the Twin Towers on 9/11/01 for howsoever long you can believe that claim.

It's alright, AJM; take it easy. ;)

You're ok.

I could go on but I'm sure you won't get the point.

AJM, I understand you perfectly well. You believe jetliners hit the WTC on 9/11 and you believe there are "1000s of witnesses' to the event.

Have I misunderstood what you believe in any way at all?

On a personal note, Something you may not be aware of is in my line of work, commercial real estate, I've not only worked along side people from Manhattan who were there and saw it with there own eyes, I've also met SURVIVORS from the towers themselves, who in fact saw it with their own eyes. Many companies that had offices destroyed or put idle by the attacks relocated some of their employees elsewhere, a lot of them to San Francisco. I met most of them in September of 2001 and since then many more over the years, and I believe them. Just because. :rolleyes:

Making your belief personal is a bit tricky, as I have said on other occasions. Doing that adds an emotional dimension that can result in the perception that I am challenging what people believe.

So, I repeat: AJM, I do not challenge that you believe jetliners hit the WTC and that there are "1000s of witnesses." I understand that you believe that.

Do you understand that I invite you to believe whatever you'd like to believe for as long as you can believe it?

The only thing I have to say to you is that you cannot, have not and will not prove your belief because your belief is not proven by the strength of your belief or by the number of times you repeat them. Repitition merely serves to confirm your lack of objective proof of your claim. You have gone around in a circle starting and ending with just because....

That and nothing more. Your belief is not based on reason.

There are not "1000s of witnesses" and the witnesses that there are actually say otherwise than what you believe.

And, I have shown that claim to be proven and correct with witness quotes, reliable sources and verifiable observations, including, by way of example, those of the Dick Oliver videos and the Task Force witness statements, to name some of the sources I have relied on.

all the best
 
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I like how the guy who was in the building and had a freaking wing fly by him was not a witness to a plane.
 
I like how the guy who was in the building and had a freaking wing fly by him was not a witness to a plane.


You got the tense wrong.

He was not "not a witness to a plane".
He was "a witness to no plane".


:eye-poppi
 
I like how the guy who was in the building and had a freaking wing fly by him was not a witness to a plane.

Repeat after me:

"I like how the guy who was in the building and had a freaking wing fly by him was not a witness to a plane"

Carlitos, does that answer your question, or do you need a clue?
 
Myths and the distinction between THE REAL and THE UNREAL

Lurkers,

We've reached a crucial juncture here involving the issue of what is believed. In the events of 9/11, we clearly have the stuff of legends where strange things happen in the sky that defy explanation, reason, rationality, and yet are believed at face value.

Essentially, 9/11 is in very grave danger of taking on mythical status where nothing that one says about it is examined for rationality.

Note the above post, where a person, presumably Stanley Praimnath, is believed by posters here when he said he survived a crash of a Boeing 767@550mph by hiding from the wing of the plane as it passed above the desk he was crouching under.

And people believe that account.

Rational thought requires that we acknowledge that there is no doubt Stanley Praimnath survived an explosion. Such thought also mandates that we realize that explosion was not caused by a Boeing 767@550mph, anymore so than what is seen below was not caused by Zeus:

godsmyths.jpg


Yes, strange phenomena happen in the sky, both now and in the remote past. All of human culture speaks to such events.

However, the events were no more chariots of fire then than they were Boeing 767s on 9/11, could more folks begin to wake up and realize it.

We've been had by pyrotechnical technology and advanced weapons of deception, lurkers.

Please grasp this.
 
What "question" did I ask, that you think you have answered?

Oh for goodness sake, Carlitos. It is not possible to see a wing of a Boeing 767, either intact or recognizable as a wing (a wing for crying out loud!) after it has allegedly crashed through steel beams at 550mph. In fact, it is not possible to survive a catastrophic, chaotic, lethal event of that nature, had it happened. It didn't.

Did you really need that explanation, Carlitos? :boggled:
 
Come on Lurkers, post up your 9/11 experiences. Supposedly there are "1000s of u"

22
http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/all43title/22-grayblock505.png?t=1276616974

Video # 22 of the ALL43 is brief and has pretty good sound of explosion and, of course, no sound consistent with a Boeing 767 at full throttle. No plane is seen in this one, just the corner of the explosion in the wrong place. It begins at about the 5:04 mark and runs about 10 seconds.

Once again, # 22 is good for purposes of falsifying the claim a full tilt boogie jetliner is involved. The sound is utterly inconsistent with that claim.

all the best
 
See, there's your problem. Let's expand on just because:

We believe it just because this incident occurred during the Manhattan morning commute. There would've been thousands on the streets.

Correct thousands

We believe it just because people from WTC 1 and some of the fortunate ones from WTC 2 evacuated from their buildings, putting thousands more on the streets.

Correct thousands

We believe it just because there are thousands more who lived and worked in close proximity to the World Trade Center. Thousands saw it from their windows.

correct 1000s , strange how none of them picked up even a phone camera shot dont you think.

We believe it just because if you hand wave away all of the above, you're still talking about two planes crashing in New York City, one of the most populated cities in the world. Thousands would've witness it is a gross understatement.

1000s yet no photos no video no nuthin.

We believe it just because these are facts, they are irrefutable and cut right to the heart of your hallucination.

Bluster

I could go on but I'm sure you won't get the point.

i get your point, you like to say WE as much as the thruthers like THEY

On a personal note, Something you may not be aware of is in my line of work, commercial real estate, I've not only worked along side people from Manhattan who were there and saw it with there own eyes, I've also met SURVIVORS from the towers themselves, who in fact saw it with their own eyes. Many companies that had offices destroyed or put idle by the attacks relocated some of their employees elsewhere, a lot of them to San Francisco. I met most of them in September of 2001 and since then many more over the years, and I believe them. Just because.

People are not interested in your personal views, as you will not be interested in my disputing your personal view, my contention is your personal view is very different in reality due to your heads placement in the rectal passage.

:rolleyes:

Can i read their witness statements anywhere, as i agree there would be 1000s, and their statements would be interesting.

Jammonious has been asking for pages now for someone to supply some statements to back up the bluff and bluster, so where are they??.
 
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Oh for goodness sake, Carlitos. It is not possible to see a wing of a Boeing 767, either intact or recognizable as a wing (a wing for crying out loud!) after it has allegedly crashed through steel beams at 550mph. In fact, it is not possible to survive a catastrophic, chaotic, lethal event of that nature, had it happened. It didn't.

Did you really need that explanation, Carlitos? :boggled:

Hasn't it hit you yet that nobody is going to accept an argument from incredulity?
 
Sorry for not reading everything but if there was no plane then what happened to all the people that took off in a plane and never came home?

Or is this where the conspiracy expands even further?

Cue :<
 
Sorry for not reading everything but if there was no plane then what happened to all the people that took off in a plane and never came home?

Or is this where the conspiracy expands even further?

Cue :<

He is asking for witness reports, not speculation.
A simple request considering there were allegedly many thousands.
Show us some, many of you have made the claim, so put up or withdraw your evidenceless claims.
 
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He is asking for witness reports, not speculation.
A simple request considering there were allegedly many thousands.
Show us some, many of you have made the claim, so put up or withdraw your evidenceless claims.

Why did you ignore the post directly above this one?

Try debating him with proof, like he is with you lot.

:jaw-dropp Proof? Where? Could you point it out please?
 
I saw it happen. In real life.


100% of no-planers are batcrap crazy.

Are you sure eye witness testemony is regarded as very fickle.
Would you like me to supply the links of the studies carried out, i have quite a few from the ufo threads where eye witnesses testemony is totally refuted by debunkers using this very logic.

That not withstanding a debunker on a debunking site claiming personal witness is as reliable as a one legged man in a backside kicking contest.
 
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