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100 Reasons Why Evolution Is Stupid (Part 1 of 11)

Yes I can. But what I say can be more eloquently expressed by the videos.,
Maybe...

However... those videos have been comprehensively debunked

So... all Radrook (who has me on ignore, IIRC) has to offer is a big, fat lie served up in ineloquent word salad...

I call 'troll'
 
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Well, I didn't' expect you to be convinced and neither was I trying to convince you. I was asked the basis for my belief in an Id and felt that the videos provide the answerr.
You disagree with their logic? That's OK. It's your prerogative.

I, for one, do not base by views on lies, ignorance and misinterpretation.

Also, can you please answer my questions?
 
Yes I can. But what I say can be more eloquently expressed by the videos.,

Then please do so. I'm not interesting in hunting through numerous videos when you can provide the answer in a matter of seconds. What is the ID hypothesis?
 
What never cease to amaze me is that some people think that youtube rants equal scientific knowledge.


Which proves absolutely NOTHING. Only that you tag as a rant things you disagree with. Now proving the accusation---there's the difficulty.

A youtube video takes however much time it costs to make, which I doubt is much more than the lenght of said video.

Ungrammatical and therefore unintelligible!



For Radbrook's enlightnement, an example of science and the time it takes.
I have recently published a paper in collaboration with others on a biochemistry subject.
This paper is not going against the current theories in that field and in fact uses them to try something new, using established biochemistry techniques and standard organisms.
So this simple. relatively straightforward non-controversial paper cost me and three others three years to get all the data convincing and reproducible. That is TWELVE man years of work to convincingly show something where most scientists in the field will go 'Heh, nice bit of work'. And even then the referees had comments and made us do some extra work to really convince them.

So other atheists were convinced by your atheist arguments. No surprise. Tell me something new.

Yet you seem to feel that some unchecked videos, that don't even give true references are enough to abandon a theory with untold millions of man hours of evidence in it? And you wonder why scientists don't agree? There have been a few scientists that indeed have tried to disprove the theory of evolution by actual work. So far they have not found any evidence, but at least I respect them for putting in their effort. But youtube video's are nothing but entertainment, and entertainment is never proof of anything.

Logic needs no references except adherence to the unbendable principles of cogent reasoning.
The beauty of the videos is that the logic is irrefutable. But hey! No need to agree. If Indeed you deem the arguments easily refutable, then please do try to refute them. The only requirement is, of course, that yoiu refrain from being illogical. I'm sure that a person of your intellectual prowess would find that an exceedingly simply task. Almost child-play I would dare surmise.

BTW
You can supply all the documentation in the world and invest all the time from here to eternity and if an idea is inherently flawed, it's lie the Humpty Dumpty egg-you can't fix it.


Two closing points:
1: I haven't linked the paper as I make some attempt at internet anonymity because I do not like being able to be googled except on a professional basis, but if you want contact me through pm and I am more than willing to send you the finished paper, any drafts that are still there and the raw data (though that is pretty hard to understand)
2: We would never have been able to perform said experiments without assuming common descent of all organisms as it involved a conserved element. Homology withing said element indicates which parts are important only if you assume evolution took place.

What I''m interested in is your refutation of the logic which the scientists on the videos used.

BTW

I would appreciate it if you address me directly and address the issues instead of trying to make me the subject of the discussion.
 
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I, for one, do not base by views on lies, ignorance and misinterpretation.

Also, can you please answer my questions?

You already tagged the answer as a misinterpretation and a lie based on ignorance. Which makes any further discussion pointless.
 
Logic needs no references except adherence to the unbendable principles of cogent reasoning.

Lol, something can be logical and a well formed argument and still be completely wrong. If you base something on a premise that isn't true, then the argument is also not true even though it is logical and well formed.

If Indeed you deem the arguments easily refutable, then please do try to refute them.

They already have been.

What I''m interested in is your refutation of the logic which the scientists on the videos used.

Interesting, you avoid a simple question about mutations over and over and over and over, and then you expect someone to answer your questions.

Do unto others except when one doesn't want to eh?

So now that we've established that there are 150-200 mutations between your parents and you, wouldn't you say most if not all of those are neutral? Otherwise it wouldn't take many generations of that many mutations to wipe out the human race.

Most of those mutations take place in DNA that's basically junk. Amazing that an Intelligent Designer would leave in all that junk DNA. Or that an Intelligent Designer would give humans the DNA to produce vitamin C by themselves, but then break it.
 
I thought the Bible command that one has to be ready to defend their faith.

It doesn't tell us to waste our time in exercises in futility. Each person has a right to believe whatever he wishes. I recognize and respect that right. I might provide a brief answer to a questions as to why I believe the way I do. But I am not inclined to persist in trying to convince a person who is unwilling to be convinced but has already chosen what he will or will not believe. That person should be left to his decision. IMHO
 
I doubt anyone here is unwilling to be convinced.

I know I am willing, in fact I've proven that I'm willing to be convinced because I've changed my mind regarding such things once already.

I still don't understand why this is a big deal, honestly. If god made gravity to keep the planets in place so he doesn't have to move them around by hand, why can't god create evolution to make sure life keeps up with the changes in its environment so he doesn't have to tweak each one by hand?
 
Lol, something can be logical and a well formed argument and still be completely wrong. If you base something on a premise that isn't true, then the argument is also not true even though it is logical and well formed.

Of course it can. Validity doesn't guarantee truth. But that's not the type of logic I am referring to.



They already have been.

Well, in that case there is no need to go further then.


Interesting, you avoid a simple question about mutations over and over and over and over, and then you expect someone to answer your questions.

I am unable to find myself around in this thread for some reason and tend to lose track. It isn't done on purpose. Also, it's exceedingly hard to motivate myself to engage in a discussion that I know will lead nowhere. That's why I try to restrain my participation on this subject to informative feedback only.


Do unto others except when one doesn't want to eh?

If that's the impression I gave I apologize.


So now that we've established that there are 150-200 mutations between your parents and you, wouldn't you say most if not all of those are neutral? Otherwise it wouldn't take many generations of that many mutations to wipe out the human race.

True


Most of those mutations take place in DNA that's basically junk. Amazing that an Intelligent Designer would leave in all that junk DNA. Or that an Intelligent Designer would give humans the DNA to produce vitamin C by themselves, but then break it.

Well, the Bible tells us that mankind underwent physical and mental deterioration asfter the fall. So the junk DNA could be explained away as part of that effect.
 
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You already tagged the answer as a misinterpretation and a lie based on ignorance. Which makes any further discussion pointless.

You haven't answered a single one of my questions.

Questions for Radrook and/or edge.

1) Is your god the IDer?
2) Why do you believe your god to be correct, and not that of other religions?
3) What evidence would convince you that evolution is correct?
4) What is the difference between micro- and macro-evolution?
 
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Which proves absolutely NOTHING. Only that you tag as a rant things you disagree with. Now proving the accusation---there's the difficulty.


Actually, I would tag most of youtube as rants/self gratification, wether it agrees with my standpoint or not. If I have to make a case for evolution I most certainly would never use youtube.



So other atheists were convinced by your atheist arguments. No surprise. Tell me something new.



Why do you assume all scientists who do not believe in ID are atheists? Most scientists are not, just like most of humanity is not. Many scientists are in fact devout christians, just like the ones who postulated evolution in the first place.


Logic needs no references except adherence to the unbendable principles of cogent reasoning.
The beauty of the videos is that the logic is irrefutable. But hey! No need to agree. If Indeed you deem the arguments easily refutable, then please do try to refute them. The only requirement is, of course, that yoiu refrain from being illogical. I'm sure that a person of your intellectual prowess would find that an exceedingly simply task. Almost child-play I would dare surmise.


When I have to compare logic backed up by data with logic without data I go for the one with data. And no, I am not going to repeat Simon39759's work in refuting your video's, he did so well enough, proving that their logic is actually quite refutable.


BTW
You can supply all the documentation in the world and invest all the time from here to eternity and if an idea is inherently flawed, it's lie the Humpty Dumpty egg-you can't fix it.


If an idea is inherently flawed than experiments flowing from that idea should show these flaws. Newtons laws are flawed, and experiments proved this. The theories before plate tectonics were flawed, experiments showed this. Dalton's original theory of atoms was flawed.. etc. In each case the theory was discarded or updated. I'll happily admit that Darwin's original theory was far from perfect, and has been updated with new knowledge. But no evidence is known that shows that evolution does not take place or has unexplainable gaps.



I would appreciate it if you address me directly and address the issues instead of trying to make me the subject of the discussion.

I was using your video's as the subject of discussion. While you post them, edge, 154 and DH all reference them from time to time.
 
I doubt anyone here is unwilling to be convinced.

I know I am willing, in fact I've proven that I'm willing to be convinced because I've changed my mind regarding such things once already.

I still don't understand why this is a big deal, honestly. If god made gravity to keep the planets in place so he doesn't have to move them around by hand, why can't god create evolution to make sure life keeps up with the changes in its environment so he doesn't have to tweak each one by hand?

Evolution and belief in God are not mutually exclusive. There are people who reconcile the twain. However, from a strictly literal biblical view the two are incompatible.
 
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I'll repeat Taffer's questions in the vain hope that Edge or Radrook will answer them.

Questions for Radrook and/or edge.

1) Is your god the IDer?
2) Why do you believe your god to be correct, and not that of other religions?
3) What evidence would convince you that evolution is correct?
4) What is the difference between micro- and macro-evolution?
 
Actually, I would tag most of youtube as rants/self gratification, wether it agrees with my standpoint or not. If I have to make a case for evolution I most certainly would never use youtube.

Your premise is defective. The arguments presented are either convincing or unconvincing.
Are either cogent or fallacious. The manner of transmission of these arguments be it via written word, tv, telephone, telegraph, email, snail-mail, fax or you tube is completely irrelevant. Neither does the person appearing on the youtube become less of a scientist just because he uses the youtube to get his point across.

Why do you assume all scientists who do not believe in ID are atheists? Most scientists are not, just like most of humanity is not. Many scientists are in fact devout Christians, just like the ones who postulated evolution in the first place.

Didn't say they al were. Sorry I gave the impression. However, please note that a believer in God is a believer in an ID. They are one and the same.



When I have to compare logic backed up by data with logic without data I go for the one with data. And no, I am not going to repeat Simon39759's work in refuting your video's, he did so well enough, proving that their logic is actually quite refutable.

all good and well. However,m you are missing te point. The point is that some truths need no extensive experimentation or documentation, Such truths are arrived at with pure logic.



If an idea is inherently flawed than experiments flowing from that idea should show these flaws. Newtons laws are flawed, and experiments proved this. The theories before plate tectonics were flawed, experiments showed this. Dalton's original theory of atoms was flawed.. etc. In each case the theory was discarded or updated. I'll happily admit that Darwin's original theory was far from perfect, and has been updated with new knowledge. But no evidence is known that shows that evolution does not take place or has unexplainable gaps.

Well, as you know that point is debatable and is debated often between evolutionists and creationists. I personally don't put my trust in theories that say one thing one moment and then turn around and come u with another idea the next. It weakens credibility and smacks of quackery.

When I was a kid I was taught Neanderthals were veritably apelike and wee not part of the human raced. I accepted that as fact and would have argued my head off with anyone who contradicted it. This was later buttressed by a DNA study which conclusively proved that Human DNA and Neanderthal DNA are different abd that no interbreeding could take place. Then Suddenly we have the neanderthals now with human appearance, the apelike hunch is gone, humans have interbred, and they too are homo sapiens Neanderthals. So much foir my certainty. This fiasco is repeated over and over ad nauseum. Others want to go along with this little game? Ok by me. But I prefer not to.


I was using your video's as the subject of discussion. While you post them, edge, 154 and DH all reference them from time to time.

Was unaware of that. But it';s not the videos as medium of communication per se but the arguments presented that are important.
 
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