Anti-English discrimination in Quebec

[Canadian712]

This shows how quickly a language can erode and die, 60 years is very quick to loose a language. And we see the same thing starting to happen to Montréal.

There's a problem: it's not happening. People in Montreal are speaking more French than English and if immigrants want to choose English over French, they have the right to. No one has the right to tell them which language to choose. If no one believes me about not having freedom of choice in terms of language in Quebec, here it is from the horse's mouth:"It is not acceptable to send this message, that it is possible to have free choice."...from non other than the fascist separatist bigot Pauline Marois, leader of the PQ.

That's the only thing we want to prevent with those laws, to prevent French from disappearing from Québec, and North America (ironically, in our case French is the one we want to protect, while in Brussels French is the threat).

And that's fine. But you don't have to suppress other languages to do that. It's my fundemental rights to freedom of speech to post signs in whatever language i desire. I understand that French must be present, but if you look at other provinces, English does not have to be present. What you don't seem to understand is that you can't legislate a culture/language. If you enforce it upon someone, you'll actually have the opposite effect, which is one of the reason Quebec has the lowest amount of immigrants than the ROC.

Btw Pardalis, I was referring to Dutch itself as a language, not Dutch in Brussels. Currently, Dutch is only spoken in a part of Germany and Greenland. Your response to my point is invalid, because most Danes are fluent English speakers, more than Quebecers as a matter of fact. You seem to forget that Quebec was doing much better before Renee Levesque and his little gang took power in the late 70s.

 

[Canadian712]

You do realise that the Scandanavian languages are, to a large extent (and excluding Icelandic) mutually intelliglble, don't you? And you acknowledge that Danish is used by the media, the courts, the government, and so in said country?



And yet to have wholly failed to respond to the points made about Scottish Gaelic and Welsh, likewise other posters point to the Native American languages which are close to extintion in the face of overwhelming anglo pressure.

I think it's your "real world" comment which is most telling, however, especially in conjunction with your comments about provinces. It's quite clear that you do have aproblem with these damned pesky Quebecois having the temerity to hold on to their language and culture.

To be frank, I seriousy doubt just how much of an effort you made to learn their language and I've yet to hear a good reason why you find it so hard to learn another tongue. It must be easy, after all 90% of Danes managed to become bilingual in English......

In regards to the Native American languages, colonialists committed outright genocide against them, and these include the French as well. The "big bad anglos" are not committing genocide against anyone in Quebec so that comparison is just way off.

I do not have a problem with French Quebecers keeping their culture but in some instances, people are not hired simply because they don't have a French sounding last name. I know a few people who had to move to Ottawa to become firefighters simply because they couldn't get the job in Quebec due to their ethnicity. All these laws that restrict English public schooling, English public signs, banning English as on OFFICIAL language(not to be confused with a national language) are viewed by many as steps to wipe out the English culture in Quebec, including myself. Bill 22, Bill 178, Bill 101 and Bill 104/103 are all laws that restrict English education and signs in public. The anti-English language bigotry in Quebec has gotten to this low:
http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2010/05/language-militants-sink-to-new-low.html

I honestly do not know what these language laws are doing in Canada. It goes against everything that Canada believes in. The fact that Supreme Court says that "reasonable restrictions" are acceptable is just disgusting.

 

[Canadian712]

I assume that Quebec politicians know that you cannot get anywhere in the world, in terms of business, outside Quebec. Quebec Francophones now have a much harder time learning English due to these laws and the English education in Quebec's French schools is just terrible. I just have to wonder if this was part of their intentions when enacting Bill 101.

 

[Architect]

In regards to the Native American languages, colonialists committed outright genocide against them, and these include the French as well. The "big bad anglos" are not committing genocide against anyone in Quebec so that comparison is just way off.

I do not have a problem with French Quebecers keeping their culture but in some instances, people are not hired simply because they don't have a French sounding last name. I know a few people who had to move to Ottawa to become firefighters simply because they couldn't get the job in Quebec due to their ethnicity. All these laws that restrict English public schooling, English public signs, banning English as on OFFICIAL language(not to be confused with a national language) are viewed by many as steps to wipe out the English culture in Quebec, including myself. Bill 22, Bill 178, Bill 101 and Bill 104/103 are all laws that restrict English education and signs in public. The anti-English language bigotry in Quebec has gotten to this low:
http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2010/05/language-militants-sink-to-new-low.html

I honestly do not know what these language laws are doing in Canada. It goes against everything that Canada believes in. The fact that Supreme Court says that "reasonable restrictions" are acceptable is just disgusting.

Yet once again you ignore the arguably more relevant examples of Scottish Gaelic and Welsh. I'm sure there's a good reason for this, and I'm waiting to hear it.

 

[Pardalis]

There's a problem: it's not happening.

Yes it is.

The decline of French in Montréal:

http://ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/politiqueprovinciale/20442-nouvelles-francais-montreal

Le rapport révèle que plus de 138 000 personnes vivant à Montréal ont abandonné leur langue maternelle pour vivre en anglais, selon des données du recensement de 2006 de Statistique Canada. Au même moment, seulement 80 465 personnes ont largué leur langue maternelle au profit du français.

138 K people have abandoned French, their mother tongue over English, only 80 K have adopted French.

Les immigrants choisissent massivement l’anglais. Selon de nouvelles données publiées dans le rapport, 157 869 allophones se sont anglicisés contre 143 380 qui se sont francisés dans la région montréalaise en 2006.

Immigrants choose English massively. 157 K took English over French.

At the bottom, you can read that 47 K francophones have left Montréal.


English majority will be reached before 2016:

http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/quebeccanada/archives/2010/04/20100407-050116.html

Si rien ne change et si le passé est garant de l'avenir, en 2016, il y aura 43% de gens dont la langue maternelle sera le français sur l'île de Montréal et la population de langue d'usage française atteindra le même seuil en 2031, déplore-t-il.

from non other than the fascist separatist bigot Pauline Marois, leader of the PQ.

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility

You seem to forget that Quebec was doing much better before Renee Levesque and his little gang took power in the late 70s.

That's just patently false.

 

[Pardalis]

I assume that Quebec politicians know that you cannot get anywhere in the world, in terms of business, outside Quebec. Quebec Francophones now have a much harder time learning English due to these laws and the English education in Quebec's French schools is just terrible. I just have to wonder if this was part of their intentions when enacting Bill 101.

Le Cirque du Soleil, Bombardier, and countless companies disagree with you.

Stop demonizing us.

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for rule 12

 

[Pardalis]

In regards to the Native American languages, colonialists committed outright genocide against them, and these include the French as well. The "big bad anglos" are not committing genocide against anyone in Quebec so that comparison is just way off.

Nobody is talking about genocide, so why don't you get off you high horse?

I do not have a problem with French Quebecers keeping their culture

Yes you do.

but in some instances, people are not hired simply because they don't have a French sounding last name.

I doubt it very much. Care to give an example? Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

I know a few people who had to move to Ottawa to become firefighters simply because they couldn't get the job in Quebec due to their ethnicity.

Sounds like total BS. Care to give an example? Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

All these laws that restrict English public schooling, English public signs, banning English as on OFFICIAL language(not to be confused with a national language) are viewed by many as steps to wipe out the English culture in Quebec, including myself.

Well, you're wrong.

I honestly do not know what these language laws are doing in Canada. It goes against everything that Canada believes in. The fact that Supreme Court says that "reasonable restrictions" are acceptable is just disgusting.

Poor little person.

 

[Canadian712]

Yes it is.

The decline of French in Montréal:

http://ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-ge...ncais-montreal

The Anglo population in Montreal is about 25%. Get the **** over yourself. If French is to become the minority in Montreal, it won't be because of British Loyalists from 1759, but rather from immigrants deciding to keep their native tongues as their home spoken language(s).

Well, you're wrong.

Bills 101, 178, 104/103, and 22 have proved me right. It sickens me to no end that Anglos have taken discrimination from these bigots all these years. When I heard the PQ wanted to extend Bill 101 to public CEGEPs, that did it for me.

Go to hell.

The fact that you don't support free choice of education, especially when most of your Francophone companions do, is disgusting.

Yes you do.

I am against French Quebecers having rights at the expense of the Anglos rights. Make of that what you will.

Le Cirque du Soleil, Bombardier, and countless companies disagree with you.

They all have to speak English to operate in the outside world now don't they?

Nobody is talking about genocide, so why don't you get off you high horse?

The government's actions speak otherwise.

I doubt it very much. Care to give an example? Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

It's personal experiences a few friends of mine experienced. It's not a story I found on the net

Stop demonizing us.

I have no sympathy for bigots attempting to restrict people's freedom of speech and freedom of education.

That's just patently false.

Wrong. When Quebec was institutionally bilingual, people were getting along much better. Both groups of people had the same rights, and Montreal was the business capital of Canada. When the PQ government took power and began enacting anti-English laws, many businesses moved to Toronto and contributed in the city's takeover as Canada's business capital. Although businesses in Toronto began growing prior, the mass exodus of businesses from Montreal gave it a really big boost. Hadn't those laws been enacted, Montreal would most likely still enjoy the status as Canada's business capital and you know it.

 

[Pardalis]

The Anglo population in Montreal is about 25%. Get the **** over yourself. If French is to become the minority in Montreal, it won't be because of British Loyalists from 1759

Nobody is talking about 1759.

but rather from immigrants deciding to keep their native tongues as their home spoken language(s).

No, it's because they will choose English over French.

Bills 101, 178, 104/103, and 22 have proved me right. It sickens me to no end that Anglos have taken discrimination from these bigots all these years.

I think you made that clear.

The fact that you don't support free choice of education, especially when most of your Francophone companions do, is disgusting.

You're easily disgusted.

I am against French Quebecers having rights at the expense of the Anglos rights. Make of that what you will.

It's self-protection. Anglos are doing pretty good anyway.

The government's actions speak otherwise.

Ridiculous

It's personal experiences a few friends of mine experienced. It's not a story I found on the net

I doubt they are truthful. Maybe it has more to do with their young age and their lack of skills and experience. I've never heard anyone not being hired because of their last name.

Wrong. When Quebec was institutionally bilingual, people were getting along much better.

You weren't even born.

Both groups of people had the same rights, and Montreal was the business capital of Canada. When the PQ government took power and began enacting anti-English laws, many businesses moved to Toronto and contributed in the city's takeover as Canada's business capital. Although businesses in Toronto began growing prior, the mass exodus of businesses from Montreal gave it a really big boost. Hadn't those laws been enacted, Montreal would most likely still enjoy the status as Canada's business capital and you know it.

Montreal is doing just fine economically. Post your tired 30 year old talking points somewhere else.

I think it's pretty clear who the bigot is in this thread.

So young, and already so bitter. Oh well.

 

[Architect]

Well jings, he just keeps overlooking parallels to the Celtic languages, doesn't he!

 

[Morrigan]

Wow, I am by no means a separatist, I think Pauline Marois is pretty damn dumb, and I find that most Québécois whining about protecting their precious French to range from amusing to annoying... possibly because I couldn't care less about most of Québec's culture and because as a gamer, I'm greatly annoyed at the fact that some retailers won't carry games because the manuals haven't been translated in French and other such stupidity.

That said, Canadian712 is so much sillier and more annoying by far. Your rights aren't trampled, you big frigging baby. English is omnipresent on the island of Montreal, in some places like some restaurants in Chinatown you cannot even be served in French (well, sometimes you can barely be served in English too pointing at the menu item number helps... haha), you can actually live your WHOLE life in Montreal without speaking a word of French (I know such people) and you can certainly get plenty of jobs, though of course knowing French helps. Half the place I've worked had hired plenty of unilingual anglophones and only one of those places didn't require English to be hired. Get it? I'm in Québec, where the official language is French, and I've worked in places where not only French wasn't required but English was! And now you're whining about discrimination? All I can do is point and laugh.

If you have trouble getting a job as a student, might it be because most student jobs involve speaking to the public (fast food, video rental, grocery store, etc.), and thus would indeed require the employee to be solid in French? Nah, can't be it. Must be Pauline Marois's evil shadow trying to brutally discriminate you.

Is it true that all french canadians are alcoholics? And is it true that all Anglo Canadians have thrush? These are common beliefs in Australia.

I'm French Canadian and I don't even drink alcohol. Are you somehow confusing us with the Irish?

I get a kick out of the Franglais around here too...t'as passé un bon weekend?

Now now, the French from France say "week-end". We say "fin de semaine". They say "parking", we say "stationnement".

...Of course, they say, "se stationner dans le parking", while we say, "se parker dans le stationnement".

 

[Pardalis]

En autant que tu parkes pas ton char en double, l'affaire va être Ketchup.

 

[Morrigan]

I can't believe I missed this gem the first time:

Get the **** over yourself.

I couldn't have said it better to Canadian712.

 

[Canadian712]

That said, Canadian712 is so much sillier and more annoying by far. Your rights aren't trampled, you big frigging baby. English is omnipresent on the island of Montreal, in some places like some restaurants in Chinatown you cannot even be served in French (well, sometimes you can barely be served in English too pointing at the menu item number helps... haha), you can actually live your WHOLE life in Montreal without speaking a word of French (I know such people) and you can certainly get plenty of jobs, though of course knowing French helps. Half the place I've worked had hired plenty of unilingual anglophones and only one of those places didn't require English to be hired. Get it? I'm in Québec, where the official language is French, and I've worked in places where not only French wasn't required but English was! And now you're whining about discrimination? All I can do is point and laugh.

Edited by Darat: 

Breach of Rule 0 removed.

I was referring to language of education rights, in which Quebec politicians don't seem to believe in.

It's self-protection. Anglos are doing pretty good anyway.

I will admit, it has been getting better for Anglos in recent years, mostly because the height of Quebec nationalism is over. For instance, I sometimes go near the Angrignon mall in Lasalle and they have numerous bilingual "Stop" signs. However, I think that Jean Lesage's ideas should have been kept in place, namely Bill 63.

Montreal is doing just fine economically. Post your tired 30 year old talking points somewhere else.

It is, but it was doing much better in the pre-nationalism era.

 

[Pardalis]

For instance, I sometimes go near the Angrignon mall in Lasalle and they have numerous bilingual "Stop" signs.

Otherwise are you usually confused when you see a red sign saying "Arrêt"?

BTW, have you seen many bilingual stop sings in the rest of Canada, I mean besides Ottawa?

 

[Segnosaur]

Otherwise are you usually confused when you see a red sign saying "Arrêt"?

BTW, have you seen many bilingual stop sings in the rest of Canada, I mean besides Ottawa?

Actually many towns/cities in Ontario (not just Ottawa) have bilingual signs.

Come to think of it, I can't even remember if signs in Ottawa are bilingual. But they are in other places.

For example: http://wikitravel.org/en/Sudbury_(Ontario)
Since Sudbury is officially bilingual, all city services are available in both French and English. Road signs and street names are also posted in both official languages

Also, New Brunswick apparently has bilingual signs (although I've never been there)...
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilingual_sign
In New Brunswick, signs are bilingual in English and French, as both languages share official status there.

 

[Pardalis]

We were talking about stop signs.

 

[Segnosaur]

We were talking about stop signs.

Yeah I know.

I've seen bilingual stop signs in some areas of Ontario. I assumed that since places like Nova Scotia are officially bilingual, their stop signs (as well as others) would also be bilingual.

 

[Pardalis]

I've seen bilingual stop signs in some areas of Ontario.

But not all of Ontario. How discriminatory.

Still the French population of Ontario seems to get by well with anglo stop sings. Maybe there's something about the red and the shape...

 

[Segnosaur]

But not all of Ontario. How discriminatory.

Still the French population of Ontario seems to get by well with anglo stop sings. Maybe there's something about the red and the shape...

Maybe, but just in case I've started a petition to have land mines installed at all stop signs.