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Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

Hmmmm

BK623, you keep inferring that this concept of individual consent arose from the Constitution, it did not, if you believe it did please provide the relevant passages from the constitution or the Federalist papers. One must also wonder why no one seems to have been aware of this 'concept', how do you explain this lack of observation of what would have been such a fundamental change in political design and usage?

Just so we understand where you are coming from could you let us know which of the following law you believe you can pick and choose from:

Federal taxes

State taxes

County property taxes

Drug use laws

Selling drugs to minors

Licensing of motor vehicles

Traffic laws

Laws requiring car insurance

Drivers license

That should be a start
 
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Hans said:
Just so we understand where you are coming from could you let us know which of the following law you believe you can pick and choose from:

Federal taxes
State taxes
County property taxes
Drug use laws
Selling drugs to minors
Licensing of motor vehicles
Traffic laws
Laws requiring car insurance
Drivers license

That should be a start
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I'd guess the following:-

Federal taxes----costs me money so NO don't like that one

State taxes -----costs me money so NO don't like that one

County property taxes---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Drug use laws---- hey I like ma weed so NO

Selling drugs to minors----kids innit gotta look after the kids.

Licensing of motor vehicles---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Traffic laws---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Laws requiring car insurance----costs me money so NO don't like that one

Drivers license---costs me money so NO don't like that one



And the theme is not paying i.e. Freeloading.:mad:
 
Bluekush623 said:
you must define rules or laws.

and i have already done that for you guys. there is mala prohibitium and mala in se.

Mala Prohibitium is Phrase used in law to refer to conduct that constitutes an unlawful act only by virtue of statute and consent.

Mala in Se: The phrase is used to refer to conduct assessed as inherently wrong by nature, independent of regulations governing the conduct or consent.
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Since you seem to enjoy legal philosophy, care to define these crimes?

Prostitution-Malum in se or prohibitum?

Procurement-Malum in se or prohibitum?

False imprisonment- Malum in se or prohibitum?

Keeping of slaves- Malum in se or prohibitum?

Negligent homocide- (Note: not murder.)- Malum in se or prohibitum?

Uttering a forged instument- Malum in se or prohibitum?

Crime of misprison (I add this because you seem to like archaic language)- Malum in se or prohibitum?

Which of these crimes can I safely not consent to?
 
Maybe it's Homeopathic Law, the more you lose cases the more effective it is.
 
Bluekush623 said:
Being hauled off to jail is a bitter conclusion to either gross negligence or complete unawareness of the court system.
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So if someone pleads his FOTL stuff to a court and the court throws him in jail anyway, that's because the court system doesn't know how the court system works? That's awesome.

So, umm, in the above instance...what's the FOTL's "legal remedy" to being thrown in jail anyway after making his FOTL declaration in court?
 
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Checkmite said:
So, umm, in the above instance...what's the FOTL's "legal remedy" to being thrown in jail anyway after making his FOTL declaration in court?
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Ooh ooh ooh! I know, I know! Is it to declare that anal rape was what you wanted and you've tricked the court system into doing what you wanted?
 
talkie toaster said:
I'd guess the following:-

Federal taxes----costs me money so NO don't like that one

State taxes -----costs me money so NO don't like that one

County property taxes---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Drug use laws---- hey I like ma weed so NO

Selling drugs to minors----kids innit gotta look after the kids.

Licensing of motor vehicles---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Traffic laws---costs me money so NO don't like that one

Laws requiring car insurance----costs me money so NO don't like that one

Drivers license---costs me money so NO don't like that one



And the theme is not paying i.e. Freeloading.:mad:
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We have calling them "Freeloaders On The Land" for quite some time.
 
Checkmite said:
Bluekush623 said:
Being hauled off to jail is a bitter conclusion to either gross negligence or complete unawareness of the court system.
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So if someone pleads his FOTL stuff to a court and the court throws him in jail anyway, that's because the court system doesn't know how the court system works? That's awesome.
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Ah, I was reading that differently. I was taking it as meaning that the FOTLers being hauled off to jail was because of their complete unawareness of the court system rather than the court system's complete unawareness of itself. My interpretation makes more sense, but yours fits FOTLer rhetoric better.
 
Over on Godlikeproductions the woos are celebrating over a first hand report of a FOTL court case:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1095938/pg1

My favorite part:

The judge then asks him to take be seated. He replies that he does not recognize the authority which is asking him to sit. Eventually he sits down. Then I watch the women next to me in the visitor section right a note "DO NOT SIT. THIS IS HOW THEY GET YOU TO COMPLY. DO NOT SIT" The judge asks him to go back to the audience so he can take more cases and here him later. Then the women gives him the note.
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GLP has a very high quotient of mentally ill people - literally, they even state they don't "discriminate" against the mentally ill by stopping them from posting or asking that they seek help from a professional - and they are LOVING this.

The case was merely continued as the judge didn't feel like dealing with the woo shenanigans. If they hadn't been practicing FMOTL woo and brought an audience of 30 people, who knows - the issue could have been resolved then and there. FMOTL woo yet AGAIN just making things harder on people who use it.
 
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LightinDarkness said:
Over on Godlikeproductions the woos are celebrating over a first hand report of a FOTL court case:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1095938/pg1

My favorite part:



GLP has a very high quotient of mentally ill people - literally, they even state they don't "discriminate" against the mentally ill by stopping them from posting or asking that they seek help from a professional - and they are LOVING this.

The case was merely continued as the judge didn't feel like dealing with the woo shenanigans. If they hadn't been practicing FMOTL woo and brought an audience of 30 people, who knows - the issue could have been resolved then and there. FMOTL woo yet AGAIN just making things harder on people who use it.
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wait, sitting is how they get you to comply? if you dont recognize the authority of the court shouldnt you have not stood up in the first place when they say "all rise for the honorable judge whomever"
 
Musical chairs to get out of paying your debts and state legal action.

It's so incredibly simple!
 
Mojo said:
A couple of exampes of people using what look like FOTL arguments from the Lowering the Bar blog:

Surprising Court Loss for Woman Who Challenged State's Authority to Require Driver's License

Juror Who Caused Mistrial With Online Research Must Pay Jury Fees
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A new twist - FMOTL jurors!

Its comedy gold, isn't it?

It took her two tries to do that, though, because the first time "Christiansen refused to take his seat in the courtroom because he was unwilling to recognize the court's authority." After he was reminded that the court did in fact have authority over him - a reminder conveyed by having him sit in a holding cell for several hours - he agreed to come into the courtroom and sit down after just a brief struggle with bailiffs.
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For some reason I can't help hearing the voice of Doyle Redland from Onion Radio News when I read those.
 
Mojo said:
A couple of exampes of people using what look like FOTL arguments from the Lowering the Bar blog:

Surprising Court Loss for Woman Who Challenged State's Authority to Require Driver's License

Juror Who Caused Mistrial With Online Research Must Pay Jury Fees
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Great links! bookmarked.

From the second one:

Christiansen is apparently one of those people who believe individual citizens are somehow "sovereign" in a way that allows them to ignore a court's authority. (For examples of other such people, see, e.g., here and here.) If so, why he showed up for jury duty at all is kind of a mystery, although maybe he was just voluntarily fulfilling a civic duty, as all good sovereigns should. But if courts only have the authority that each individual citizen chooses to give it, then it's hard to see why he thinks the defendant should have stuck around for trial, let alone agree to be convicted by Paul Christiansen.

He finally agreed to pay $1,200 for causing a mistrial but I bet he will not pay and be in even more trouble.

A simple call to jury duty converted into fine and a few hours in a holding cell with the probability of more problems to come.
 
LightinDarkness said:
I realize the "epic fail" meme is overused - but if there were ever a time to use it, its now. As usual, I stand amazed that people actually practice this stuff when we have so many examples of how this ends up. Hes going to spend 7.5 YEARS in prison for following FMOTL ritual and filing frivolous liens.
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Well you've got to admit that they got a court to take their shenanigans seriously.:D
 
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