Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Bluekush623]

Right.

So, do you think it is a status that has any effective meaning in the current, existing legal system of America? Does that status, in your opinion actually confer you benefits, right now, today, under the law as it currently stands in America?

Or is the status one you think people ought to have, either collectively or individually?

How many times can I ask a simple question? Your replies seem to switch between FOTL being a status that has real effects in real courts, right now, and FOTL status being something you think is ideologically and politically preferable to "the current system". So which is it?

Yes the status "should" have effective meaning. And yes it does confer benefits. However in today's age it has for the lack of better words "been forgotten" and "ignored".

and the status is dependent on the individuals consent if they want it or not.

 

[Bluekush623]

No, Toke is perfectly on topic. What the FOTL don't understand is that their ideas are in direct conflict with both the words of the Constitution and the DOI, and the reasons for their creation. You are in such a minority that you will have to revolt, and you are such a fringe group that the Screen Actors Guild has a much better chance of a successful coup.

do you know what consent of the governed is?

 

[Sledge]

Excellent. So FOTL is how the legal system works now. Great. In that case, it has been thorougly debunked by it's failure in every court case where it has been tested. Good day to you.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

do you know what consent of the governed is?

It means that the government is in power by the will of the people within the society it governs. At the moment, in America, that will is expressed by electing officials to go do the actual governing.

It very significantly does not mean that each individual within the society can choose to opt out of being governed (at least, not if they want to stick around within the society's established borders).

 

[TSR]

... and you are such a fringe group that the Screen Actors Guild has a much better chance of a successful coup.

>
Of course, we have Dirty Harry, Rambo and Batman on our side, so of course our chances are better
>

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

do you know what consent of the governed is?

If you do not consent to be governed, your only option is secession.

 

[Toke]

If you do NOT consent to be governed, your only option is secession.

My insertion.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

you consent to the laws of the united states when you consent to live in the united states. if you do not consent you are free to move to another country with different laws and renounce your citizenship

 

[TSR]

My insertion.

>
Only if you take me to dinner first, we've had this discussion: I'm easy, not cheap.
>

 

[Ladewig]

I like how you ignored that fact that i mentioned the OP of this thread has nothing to do with fraud or criminal intent.

Fine, we'll do it your way. Can you show me any case in which someone accused of a victimless crime has ever been released by quoting the Constitution? If not, do you believe that we are on the verge of seeing such arrests overturned in court?

 

[Toke]

>
Only if you take me to dinner first, we've had this discussion: I'm easy, not cheap.
>

As far as I recall from last time it is your turn to foot the dinner.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Fine, we'll do it your way. Can you show me any case in which someone accused of a victimless crime has ever been released by quoting the Constitution? If not, do you believe that we are on the verge of seeing such arrests overturned in court?

Convicted might be a better term. There are surely cases where unreasonable search and seizure invalidated evidence.

 

[TSR]

As far as I recall from last time it is your turn to foot the dinner.

>
Check the video, you got plenty of foot and basically *ruined* those fishnets...


I'm sorry, is this in publc? You know that costs extra...
>

 

[MostlyHarmless]

>
Of course, we have Dirty Harry, Rambo and Batman on our side, so of course our chances are better
>

I was thinking they have the two things Freemen could use: money..... and disguises. Of course, if they had money, they wouldn't have to be Freemen.

 

[Bluekush623]

Excellent. So FOTL is how the legal system works now. Great. In that case, it has been thorougly debunked by it's failure in every court case where it has been tested. Good day to you.

Ugh, stop jumping to conclusions. No one said FOTL is the way the legal system works, i said it is a Policy Status. Major difference.

You keep trying too counter my arguments however you do no such thing. You only label it debunked, you have not proven it too be debunked.

 

[Toke]

Policy Status

Would you mind defining this?

 

[Sledge]

Ugh, stop jumping to conclusions. No one said FOTL is the way the legal system works, i said it is a Policy Status. Major difference.

You keep trying too counter my arguments however you do no such thing. You only label it debunked, you have not proven it too be debunked.

So make your mind up. Is FOTL the way things work now or is it how you would like things to work now? This isn't a trick question. It seems like you don't know.

 

[LashL]

i said it is a Policy Status. Major difference.

The problem, of course, is that in the real world, those who self-identify as Freemen on the Land do not have and never had the ability to opt out of the laws that they do not happen to like. It matters not how many times they chant what they believe to be magic words; those words do not confer upon them any special status, nor do those words have any legal effect in the real world as the FOTLers imagine (or perhaps wish) them to have.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

My insertion.

Whoops, yes. Thank you.

 

[volatile]

Ugh, stop jumping to conclusions. No one said FOTL is the way the legal system works, i said it is a Policy Status. Major difference.

You said "yes it does confer benefits" when asked if it has effective under the current legal system. Are you changing your mind?

Can you explain, for the uninitiated among us, what this "major difference" might be? I'd sure like to learn, if you'd care to teach me. Explain to us what the "major difference is"...