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TAM Australia

It could also double as the entertainment, since I'm sure they'd have us ROTFLing at some point.:D

Though, considering the hand-wringing and drams that occurred when JREF announced CFI involvement with TAM8 (and they're like-minded). Twitter and blog posts of drama would go off the charts.
 
I've already booked flights, and I am going to TAM Australia (provided I can get a ticket). However I would agree that the costs for a non student are quite high. In addition, and with all due respect to those involved, the line up is not particularly spectacular. When I look at the TAM London line up, so many unique names jump out for me personally (Andy Nyman, Tim Minchin, Stephen Fry, Richard Wiseman) and I'm really disappointed that I can't be there. However the list of TAM Australia's speakers isn't nearly as fresh and exciting. It seems like it includes a couple of TAM Vegas regulars (most of whom I expect I will see in Vegas next month) and a few locals thrown in as filler. Anyone else a bit bummed about the line up?
 
I've already booked flights, and I am going to TAM Australia (provided I can get a ticket). However I would agree that the costs for a non student are quite high. In addition, and with all due respect to those involved, the line up is not particularly spectacular. When I look at the TAM London line up, so many unique names jump out for me personally (Andy Nyman, Tim Minchin, Stephen Fry, Richard Wiseman) and I'm really disappointed that I can't be there. However the list of TAM Australia's speakers isn't nearly as fresh and exciting. It seems like it includes a couple of TAM Vegas regulars (most of whom I expect I will see in Vegas next month) and a few locals thrown in as filler. Anyone else a bit bummed about the line up?

Tim Minchin is an extra paid event for TAMLondon, and Stephen Fry is not confirmed.
 
I go to a lot of conferences which include overseas presenters. And yes, they are around the same price, but they aim to make a decent profit. I've also organised conferences in Australia. I know the cost of venues in Sydney. JREF will make a serious profit out of this in my opinion. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

"Profit" is not usually a word that applies towards charities or educational groups. The money made isn't paid to shareholders, as is the case with a corporation, it's used to fund the activities of the organization. TAM Vegas is currently the primary fund-raising activity of the JREF. It doesn't have thousands of dues-paying members, it sells only a few books from its online store. It doesn't have a magazine with ad placement to sell. There are a few paid staff members - Randi, DJ, Jeff, Bart, and some part time or intern positions. They have a very small office in Fort Lauderdale. They put out a quarterly small newsletter for paid members, they administer the challenger (a great deal of paperwork goes on). And so on.

The JREF is trying to expand its outreach and resources to schools, and that takes money. TAM isn't just outreach, it is also funding raising. Why do you wish to be proven wrong - it is a legitimate thing to have fund raising activities. It's not any different that NPR or PBS providing programming, over the air, that people can and do listen to for free, and still needing a way to come up with funding to do those things. As DJ has mentioned, in order to expand, you need to raise funds. Printers won't work for free, and you can't send materials to people without printing them.

I, too, go to conferences that make money, although none of them are 'for profit' but are also fund-raising for the particular organizations. All of them have a place where vendors can rent booths to sell or advertise their products, and some of the participating companies will 'donate' a coffee center or something similar, to take the burden of the cost off of the organization. IIRC, the Vegas hotels charged something like $5 per person per day to supply unlimited coffee. Over three days, that would be an additional $15 per person. It adds up.

I looked up some statistics for DragonCon. They charge $100 per person for four days, but they have over 30,000 people attend, with 1500 unpaid volunteers. Sheer numbers means they have much more money to work with, even at a lower per-person fee. It's a fundamental of scale. If you want to sell stuff, you have to pay to have a booth. And so on. And DC is for-profit. At TAM Vegas, a few people have tables to sell books. At TAM UK, I don't believe there were any tables with stuff for sale, at all. All the money to cover the costs, and return something to JREF for fund-raising, was strictly through the ticket sales.

I don't know how many people are expected to attend TAM Oz, but do the math - how much money should the JREF be 'allowed' to earn for a primary fundraising event? $200K? $100K $50K? Did you have a number in mind?
 
Tim Minchin is an extra paid event for TAMLondon, and Stephen Fry is not confirmed.


I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.
 
I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.

Honestly, there were a lot of people from the UK on their list, and I think it's easier (both money and time wise) to get people to the UK than to Australia. They're also getting more people.
 
I know. But there certainly seems to have been a lot more effort put in to recruiting a more diverse and exciting list of speakers for the London event than for the Australian one.

Oh, also, I think it's a bit iffy to be advertising a big name like Stephen Fry when he's not confirmed and may not even be there.
 
I don't know how many people are expected to attend TAM Oz, but do the math - how much money should the JREF be 'allowed' to earn for a primary fundraising event? $200K? $100K $50K? Did you have a number in mind?

They never do. I run into this a lot when people complain that something costs too much. You ask, "well, what is the 'correct' price", and they either don't know, or name some price, but can't explain what makes it "correct". Same thing for athlete salaries.
 
Honestly, there were a lot of people from the UK on their list, and I think it's easier (both money and time wise) to get people to the UK than to Australia. They're also getting more people.


Oh, also, I think it's a bit iffy to be advertising a big name like Stephen Fry when he's not confirmed and may not even be there.


Both good points, and I agree. I think the "famous" (for want of a better word) skeptical community in the UK is much larger than here in Oz. It's just a little disappointing that the list really only contains regular TAM speakers and people few of us have heard of. Never mind. More time to spend in the bar. :)
 
Hm, there was a (in my opinion) rather thoughtful blog post about TAM London prices somewhere. Ah, found it:

http://www.skeptobot.com/2010/05/skeptical-look-at-tamlondon.html

It raises some interesting points, but, whether you agree with it or not, the author correctly states that TAMs are fund-raising events for the JREF. So they are entertainment events organised to provide funds for an organisation that promotes skepticism. The events themselves are mostly for people who already are skeptics. This could be done differently, but that is a discussion that has to take place within the JREF.

I personally can live with the price, but I'm aware that for many people TAM is a luxury they cannot afford. So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.
 
So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

This was my point as well, and it's interesting to observe the hostility it has generated. Some people will not turn up because of the cost.

Has anyone considered that many organisations, when moving into a new area, don't even look at making a profit (or surplus if "profit" makes people feel squeamish)? That attracting people to the cause is more important than raising funds?
 
It's a perfectly valid discussion. It's just that I think that it is a discussion the JREF has to have; as a non-member it's not my place to expect, much less demand that they change something that has worked out well so far.
 
I'll start worrying about JREF "profits" when they start drilling off the coast of Fort Lauderdale!
 
So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.
A quick, disjointed post of many subjects:
The JREF is running two workshops that are free for JREF members and only $45 for others. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php...jref-workshops-in-louisville-and-chicago.html IIRC, there were monthly get-togethers at the Foundation, free and open to the public. GG is right, TAM is a major source of the JREF's operating funds. I'd love to see the price go down yet JREF still get the same amount from TAM, but I don't see how it could happen without a corporate sponsor. BTW, for comparison, doesn't it cost $6,000 to attend TED?
(Full disclosure: I donate annually to the JREF, volunteer to coordinate the volunteers at TAM, and pay the full price to attend TAM. Last year the JREF paid for my meals at 'working dinners', mainly in the Coronado Cafe, after TAM each day.)
 
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I personally can live with the price, but I'm aware that for many people TAM is a luxury they cannot afford.

BMW's are also a luxury many people cannot afford. Not everyone can afford everything. Life is funny that way.

So the question is if he JREF should make it a larger, more affordable event (at the risk of raising less funds), or if they should continue doing it the way they do and let events like Skeptics in the Pub do the low cost, grass roots events.

I would say the latter.
 

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