Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[quixotecoyote]

No, they thought the transmission came from the Mavi Marmara. An easy assumption to make given the violent stabbing incident that started the firefight.

The fact remains, someone on that channel said the most hateful thing they could come up with to inflame and infuriate the Israeli servicemen.

it's revealing that you don't think whoever it was bears any responsibility for the fight.

I don't think they do. I think the blame for the fight lies completely and solely on those who attacked the soldiers when they tried to come onboard the ship.

 

[Pardalis]

what do you mean with the Palestinian "cause" ?

The fact that they're stateless, and won't be for a while.

You know, Palestine, that state existing in Gaza and the West Bank that is occupied?

OK, just making sure you didn't include the territory of Israel itself in the "occupation of Palestine".

At least I can respect that.

 

[quixotecoyote]

The fact that they're stateless, and won't be for a while.



OK, just making sure you didn't include the territory of Israel itself in the "occupation of Palestine".

At least I can respect that.

It's still an odd use of "occupied"

 

[Pardalis]

No... nor did it say as such in the link Peephole provided. Which begs the question, why did Peephole lie?

I think he just jumped to a conclusion too quickly, like that blogger he took his information from.

He should know better but I'd give him a break on that one.

 

[a_unique_person]

It's still an odd use of "occupied"

The West Bank is run by the IDF. That is occupied.

Some more accounts of the event, and the people on the flotilla.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...from-the-villages-to-aid-the-orphans-1.294407

 

[quixotecoyote]

The West Bank is run by the IDF. That is occupied.

What an odd definition of 'run'

Some more accounts of the event, and the people on the flotilla.

When you post them, are they going to be as sensationalistic and unbelievable as the previous ones? Maye you can link us some of the daylight boarding horror videos they had pre-prepped?

 

[WildCat]

When the six-day war happened I was too young to understand the issues, but it was clear everybody was rooting for Israel, and happy when that country was victorious.

What happened?

The people who lost that war didn't stop fighting, and in fact became even more radical. One of those radical groups, which calls for the genocide of all Jews, got elected to the government of Gaza, Hamas. After violently suppressing all opposition, they decided to launch a campaign of firing missiles at Israeli town, killing many Israelis in the process. After several years of this, Israel finally retaliated with one of the cleanest urban assaults ever. For that they were widely condemned.

Now supporters of the genocidal religious nutbags that rule Gaza are attempting to break the blockade, and gaining the support of many of the "progressives" the world over, "progressives" apparently defined now as supporting the rights of genocidal religious fruitcakes to import whatever weapons they need to do what they wish.

All clear?

 

[a_unique_person]

What an odd definition of 'run'

The IDF is effectively the government of the West Bank.

When you post them, are they going to be as sensationalistic and unbelievable as the previous ones?

They were mostly from professional journalists from a reputable newspaper. What in particular was your problem with what they said?

 

[a_unique_person]

Now supporters of the genocidal religious nutbags that rule Gaza are attempting to break the blockade, and gaining the support of many of the "progressives" the world over, "progressives" apparently defined now as supporting the rights of genocidal religious fruitcakes to import whatever weapons they need to do what they wish.

All clear?

No. That statement is so wrong it is hard to know where to start. But it does illustrate what Palestinians are up against.

 

[quixotecoyote]

They were mostly from professional journalists from a reputable newspaper. What in particular was your problem with what they said?

There's a lot going on, so maybe you forgot we were in the middle of discussing your last link. 2186 was the last post in that chain.

In this one, there's nothing so glaring except the slanted tone. The Israelis are harsh and not understanding people interrogating the noble activists who came to help widows and orphans, none of whom attacked the soldiers and who threw themselves in the middle of the combatants to try and stop the fighting.

 

[quixotecoyote]

No. That statement is so wrong it is hard to know where to start. But it does illustrate what Palestinians are up against.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Granted, the western supporters aren't actually going "rah rah genocide," but they see the Palestines as oppressed by Israel rather than their genocidal elected government, and complain that Israel is blocking aid and ignoring that Hamas is historically and currently the one stealing and blocking supplies.

It's a narrative at odds with the facts. The facts are that Hamas and Israel are in conflict. Hamas's leaders make open calls for genocide, steal the aid intended for their people, build bunkers instead of infrastructure, and buy weapons from abroad to attack Israel with.

Israel has blockaded Hamas to stop the weapon shipments, allows the aid in, but has not taken the steps necessary to remove Hamas from government, largely (I conjecture) because even if they were to remove the party primarily responsible for the poverty and violence in Gaza, they'd just get blamed for being further evil oppressors. Plus, the Gazans would probably just elect another group like them anyway.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

No. That statement is so wrong it is hard to know where to start. But it does illustrate what Palestinians are up against.

The Hamas charter does contain clauses which call for the extermination of jews.

 

[Pardalis]

Plus, the Gazans would probably just elect another group like them anyway.

Yeah, between the Hamas and the Fatah, their electoral choice is rather redundant.

 

[Kopji]

I have to admit that the region can create news that if the context were not so potentially violent it would be humorous. Yes, I've love to see the Israeli navy wipe out the Iranians - but maybe in a bathtub.

Just an ignorant guess from someone outside Israel who gets all his views from CNN and various empty headed celebrities... but the sobering side of the Iranian Guard offer (I'd vote 'bluff') to escort Gaza ships is that there is a regional struggle for influence between Iran and everyone else which I presume includes Turkey. All Iran needs to do is look serious, and a potential player, and it might prompt Turkey to provide some kind of military escort to show that they are involved and Iran is not needed. So I say bluff. Iran probably would love to see friction between Israel and Turkey - a win for them no matter how it turned out.

Smart move by Iran.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I don't think they do.

Nor do I. They're a-holes to be sure. But it takes more than just talking trash to rise to the level of murder.

I think the blame for the fight lies completely and solely on those who attacked the soldiers when they tried to come onboard the ship.

If the "blame-israel-firsters" held Hamas and thier minions to a fraction of the same standard as they do Israel, then they would hold whoever said "go back to Auschwitz" at least partly accountable.

 

[Stout]

No. That statement is so wrong it is hard to know where to start. But it does illustrate what Palestinians are up against.

I'd say it's bang on

Maybe not so much supportive of the genocide idea but there is a strong approval of Hamas as being the democratically elected representatives of an indigenous population with the Israelis being cast in the role of colonial invaders.

It's collective guilt over Europeans colonising turtle island playing itself out over this modern day scenario. Sort of a chance to rewrite history, so to speak.

Our local activist, Kevin Neish, the guy who submitted a photograph of his parents standing with Fidel Castro to a national newspaper and who has a home office that a friend describes as being "lined with vintage leftist literature". The guy who managed to retire in his early fifties ( wow, try that in a Communist country ) and travels the world ( wow, try that in a Communist country ) telling other people that they're doing it wrong, promises to talk to the media tomorrow.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Some more accounts of the event, and the people on the flotilla.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...from-the-villages-to-aid-the-orphans-1.294407

Have to wonder if you actually read this one as it shows that those taken off the ships were well treated and looked after. Rather a different story to those claiming to have been denied water, beaten, and the like. Both lots can't be true, so a_u_p, who do you believe, the people in the article you just posted who say everyone was treated well, or the previous ones that claimed they were poorly treated?

 

[Pardalis]

I have to admit that the region can create news that if the context were not so potentially violent it would be humorous. Yes, I've love to see the Israeli navy wipe out the Iranians - but maybe in a bathtub.

Just an ignorant guess from someone outside Israel who gets all his views from CNN and various empty headed celebrities... but the sobering side of the Iranian Guard offer (I'd vote 'bluff') to escort Gaza ships is that there is a regional struggle for influence between Iran and everyone else which I presume includes Turkey. All Iran needs to do is look serious, and a potential player, and it might prompt Turkey to provide some kind of military escort to show that they are involved and Iran is not needed. So I say bluff. Iran probably would love to see friction between Israel and Turkey - a win for them no matter how it turned out.

Smart move by Iran.

Excellent observation.

And all the while the Palestinians are being used like pawns in all this political manoeuvering.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, the very same



Apparently, according to him, he was going to meet a Hamas representative to "broker a deal between Hamas and the Hawaiian government"

He pretty much confesses that they had attacked the Israeli soldiers. He himself says he helped disarm one of them.

 

[lionking]

I've been trying hard to catch up with this thread for several days, but only succeeded by cheating - and possibly because large chunks of it kept being moved to AAH. It certainly looks like a dialogue of the deaf, but it's interesting in psychological terms.

You know, when I was a kid, the Jews were the good guys. They were the good guys in all the Old Testament Stories. Jesus and his disciples were Jews. They were the Chosen People (chosen for the Messiah to come among them). They had given the world great learning and great art and great commerce. They had been the subject of an appalling genocide by Hitler, cue horrific tales of concentration camps and gas ovens. I had Jewish friends at school. (I have quite a lot of Jewish friends now.) When the six-day war happened I was too young to understand the issues, but it was clear everybody was rooting for Israel, and happy when that country was victorious.

What happened?

I don't know what the media are saying in America, but from where I'm sitting this is a complete own goal. The Israeli spokesmen are coming over like Mugabe's henchmen telling us how completely justified the reassignment of the farms to the "war veterans" is, and how all Nigeria's elections are free and fair. And that's the only pro-Israeli case that's being made.

What about this article, for example? Essay of the Week: What Drives Israel?

A Scottish guy of Palestinian extraction was welcomed back as a hero on TV today. Support for the Palestinians is widespread, even though the issue wasn't something many people even thought about before this incident. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot?

On the other hand, if there's one thing could make me feel the pro-Palestinian case is being over-egged, it's that pillock Galloway getting in on it.

Rolfe.

I know you haven't been following this thread from the start, but two questions:

• Do you think Israel is justified in maintaining a blockade given that weapons used against Israeli citizens have been smuggled into Gaza by sea in the past?
• Can you explain why violence occured on only one of the many ships boarded by Israel during the blockade?