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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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quixotecoyote said:
Thanks for that DC. Does this affect your opinion on how Israel is handing allowing the aid in? It sort of clinches it for me that they aren't trying to starve the Gazans out.
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Not much. The mass of aid is not the only thing that has to be considered.
Also it depends on what is let in. And there seems to be some deficits.
Also the Berlin blockade was 1 year, the Gaza blockade is now 3 years.

ETA: btw, nice straw man. where have i said they are starving them?
 
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a_unique_person said:
I think it is entirely possible that not all activists are the same. I could be mistaken, but I am considering the possibility.
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That is a possibility. It's also a possibility that he was on the boat for the entire trip and didn't pick up on the type of mission he was on, that he didn't talk to any of the other activists, hear any of the chants, or see any of the preparations for attack. It's possible this is all true both on the ship and during the preparation for the voyage.

In addition it's possible that the shock that he wasn't on a pleasure cruise came as the Israelis fired on their attackers rather than when his fellow activists mobbed them with clubs and knives.

It's possible.
 
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a_unique_person said:
I think it is entirely possible that not all activists are the same. I could be mistaken, but I am considering the possibility.
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I agree, there was probably a group of hardcores aboard this flotilla, akin to the black bloc at legitimate protests. I find it odd that the women were separated and sequestered on the Turkish ship.
 
DC said:
Not much. The mass of aid is not the only thing that has to be considered.
Also it depends on what is let in. And there seems to be some deficits.
Also the Berlin blockade was 1 year, the Gaza blockade is now 3 years.

ETA: btw, nice straw man. where have i said they are starving them?
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I would have to see evidence that there is some deficiency that would lead to malnutrition and that there was some difference in aid before the last 18 months.

And to your eta, I never said you claimed they were starving them out. If you can infer that from my statement, then I can infer that you jumping into a conversation with Peephole claiming Israel is causing mass maltutrion with stats originally making an unfavorable comparison to the Berlin airlift, implies support for that position. Unless you think it's unreasonable and unwarranted to call a claim that Israelis are causing mass malnutrition "Israel starving Gazans"
 
quixotecoyote said:
That is a possibility. It's also a possibility that he was on the boat for the entire trip and didn't pick up on the type of mission he was on, that he didn't talk to any of the other activists, hear any of the chants, or see any of the preparations for attack. It's possible this is all true both on the ship and during the preparation for the voyage.

In addition it's possible that the shock that he wasn't on a pleasure cruise came as the Israelis fired on their attackers rather than when his fellow activists mobbed them with clubs and knives.

It's possible.
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If you read another link I provided, the IDF came aboard during prayer time. The imam leading the prayers did not stop during the boarding, keeping a lot of the men out of the action. The people were prepared to repel the boarding using fire hoses, and to throw back at the IDF anything that was thrown at them.
 
a_unique_person said:
If you read another link I provided, the IDF came aboard during prayer time. The imam leading the prayers did not stop during the boarding, keeping a lot of the men out of the action. The people were prepared to repel the boarding using fire hoses, and to throw back at the IDF anything that was thrown at them.
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This may just be me, but I don't tend to do a lot of repelling government boarders with fire hoses or prepping for stun grenades during my Mediterranean cruises.
 
quixotecoyote said:
I would have to see evidence that there is some deficiency that would lead to malnutrition and that there was some difference in aid before the last 18 months.

And to your eta, I never said you claimed they were starving them out. If you can infer that from my statement, then I can infer that you jumping into a conversation with Peephole claiming Israel is causing mass maltutrion with stats originally making an unfavorable comparison to the Berlin airlift, implies support for that position. Unless you think it's unreasonable and unwarranted to call a claim that Israelis are causing mass malnutrition "Israel starving Gazans"
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http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/palestine-gaza-update-211209

Most families in Gaza are afflicted by unemployment and poverty. Food is available in shops and markets, but many families cannot afford a nutritious diet. Bakeries frequently have to shut down for lack of fuel.
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JihadJane said:
George Galloway announces new convoys to break the siege of Gaza

Five hundred vehicles and 60 ships to break the criminal siege of Gaza
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The British ambassador you mentioned earlier claimed what Israel did was not piracy (just a war crime :rolleyes:) - do you agree with him this was not piracy?


If the flotilla was disabled peacefully rather than being boarded, would this still constitute piracy?

You claim the Commandos held 'lethal force' as its only course of action when boarding, even though you linked to an Israeli news story claiming they would not use force unless in an emergency situation. Are you only making that claim because the Commandos are trained for using lethal force? If so, do you also contend the Israeli navy had no right to be there (even if to disable the flotilla peacefully), because they are trained to use lethal force?

One witness on the MM says the Israelis did not open fire until three or so soldiers from the first helicopter were jumped and beaten. One witness says they started shooting before they attempted boarding. Which one is correct?

There has been a lot of condemnation of the blockade of Gaza, but you have not quoted any clear law that was broken. Can you name a law that was broken?

Thanks in advance!
 
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JihadJane said:
George Galloway announces new convoys to break the siege of Gaza

Five hundred vehicles and 60 ships to break the criminal siege of Gaza
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Of course, he's a terrorist sympathizer.

888649e4c6398b7a6.jpg

 
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I've been trying hard to catch up with this thread for several days, but only succeeded by cheating - and possibly because large chunks of it kept being moved to AAH. It certainly looks like a dialogue of the deaf, but it's interesting in psychological terms.

You know, when I was a kid, the Jews were the good guys. They were the good guys in all the Old Testament Stories. Jesus and his disciples were Jews. They were the Chosen People (chosen for the Messiah to come among them). They had given the world great learning and great art and great commerce. They had been the subject of an appalling genocide by Hitler, cue horrific tales of concentration camps and gas ovens. I had Jewish friends at school. (I have quite a lot of Jewish friends now.) When the six-day war happened I was too young to understand the issues, but it was clear everybody was rooting for Israel, and happy when that country was victorious.

What happened?

I don't know what the media are saying in America, but from where I'm sitting this is a complete own goal. The Israeli spokesmen are coming over like Mugabe's henchmen telling us how completely justified the reassignment of the farms to the "war veterans" is, and how all Nigeria's elections are free and fair. And that's the only pro-Israeli case that's being made.

What about this article, for example? Essay of the Week: What Drives Israel?

A Scottish guy of Palestinian extraction was welcomed back as a hero on TV today. Support for the Palestinians is widespread, even though the issue wasn't something many people even thought about before this incident. Talk about shooting yourselves in the foot?

On the other hand, if there's one thing could make me feel the pro-Palestinian case is being over-egged, it's that pillock Galloway getting in on it.

Rolfe.
 
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Rolfe said:
Oh. I see. (I'm learning more and more about the mindset every day.... :oldroll: )

Rolfe.
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You just compared Israel to Zimbabwe, what does that say about your mindset? :oldroll:

If Israel is like Zimbabwe, what does that make Hamas look like?
 
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