Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Peephole]

Then in sails this group of Palestinians 'humanitarians' unannounced..

Unannounced, no?

Why should Israel be responsible for helping the citizens of Gaza to deal with the horror of their own elected government?

Because it's running a blockade.

What would you suggest Israel do, other than continue with its current program of protecting itself from Hamas and working to end Hamas?

At a minimum, check for weapons if they really have to, but let everything else in and out.

Peephole is going on about is caused by Hamas siphoning off the massive aid.

Massive aid, for which I've already provided you with sources that's simply not enough.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Massive aid, for which I've already provided you with sources that's simply not enough.

No one disputed Gaza is impoverished, Peephole. What I would like you to consider is why Gaza is so impoverished when aid is given to the tune of more than 1 ton of supplies per resident in the last 18 months.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Cement isn't the only thing being banned, here's an incomplete list:

fresh meat
dried fruit
seeds and nuts
biscuits and sweets
chocolate
potato chips
halva
jam
sage
cardamom
cumin
coriander
ginger
nutmeg
vinegar

horses
donkeys
goats
cattle
chicks

tarpaulin sheets for huts
wood for construction
cement
iron
plaster
tar
heaters

fishing rods
various fishing nets
buoys
ropes for fishing

irrigation pipe systems
spare parts for tractors
nylon nets for greenhouses
ropes to tie greenhouses
planters for saplings

hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries
dairies for cowsheds
heaters for chicken farms

fruit preserves
glucose
flavor and smell enhancers
plastic/glass/metal containers
gas for soft drinks
industrial salt
industrial margarine
fabric (for clothing)
sewing machines and spare parts

size A4 paper
writing implements
notebooks
newspapers
musical instruments
toys
razors

The results are clear: almost no reconstruction of the war torn Gaza strip, increased malnutrition and severe poverty.

Again, collective punishment is a war crime. It might make nice military strategy (though I doubt it), but it is what it is.

The people of Gaza do not have to suffer because of the actions of Hamas.

Several of the items on that list can be used as masking agents to "blind" bomb sniffing dogs. Sure a box labeled "Concentrated Nutmeg" might actually contain concentrated nutmeg, but it might also contain several pounds of C4 that the dogs won't be able to detect because of the nutmeg.

Livestock can be used as living incubators for biological agents.

EDIT: Funny how the banned items list nearly doubles every time it gets posted, isn't it?

 

[quixotecoyote]

Several of the items on that list can be used as masking agents to "blind" bomb sniffing dogs. Sure a box labeled "Concentrated Nutmeg" might actually contain concentrated nutmeg, but it might also contain several pounds of C4 that the dogs won't be able to detect because of the nutmeg.

Livestock can be used as living incubators for biological agents.

Sure that's possible, although the livestock thing seems like a stretch. But I think you've got the wrong response to that one. We don't have good reason to believe any of those things are actually banned.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This is gold. When you read the accounts of what happened in the aftermath of the boarding, Paul McGeough's in particular, you see how white, western activists got treated very differently that Turkish/Arab activists. Well, this inherent racism of the IDF was on show again today with the different treatment given to the white activists on board the Rachel Corrie

http://www.theage.com.au/world/israeli-troops-board-aid-ship-20100605-xliz.html\

Obviously Turks and Arabs are second class people in the mind of Israel, which just goes to highlight the inherent racism of the Jewish state, and accentuates the excess suffering that Arab Palestinians undoubtedly suffer under their yoke.

Yup, boarded by sea, no airborne helicopter sound/gas bomb attacks, and just as the whitey's were treated different in detention, ie. not bashed and tortured, so were the whitey's who chose to run the blockade. Such is the nature of the racist Israeli state.

Yup. All whitey's on board. Just like how they didn't assault whitey's in the way they assaulted Arabs/Turks on the other ship. Again highlighting Israels inherent racism.

For once, I can't wait to see MaGZ pop up in an Israel thread. Seeing his reaction to your theory that the jews are covering for "whitey" should be hilarious.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Sure that's possible, although the livestock thing seems like a stretch. But I think you've got the wrong response to that one. We don't have good reason to believe any of those things are actually banned.

Agreed, especially given the exponential growth of the banned items list over the last few times it's been mentioned.

The fact remains though that reasonable explanations exist for banning several of the items on the list.

It seems whenever jews enter the mix, some peoples critical thinking skills go out the window.

 

[Skeptic]

Seems like the "list of banned goods" is about as factual as the "Jenin massacre" or the "harvesting of Palestinian organs" -- some Palestinians claim it, useful idiots jump on it and report it, all denials from Israel instantly dismissed as "government propaganda".

Voila! Another "Israeli atrocity and human rights violation" had been created.

 

[portlandatheist]

Several of the items on that list can be used as masking agents to "blind" bomb sniffing dogs. Sure a box labeled "Concentrated Nutmeg" might actually contain concentrated nutmeg, but it might also contain several pounds of C4 that the dogs won't be able to detect because of the nutmeg.

Livestock can be used as living incubators for biological agents.

EDIT: Funny how the banned items list nearly doubles every time it gets posted, isn't it?

During the Muslim holy days of Ramadan and Eid al-Adha, Israel shipped some 11,000 head of cattle into Gaza – enough to provide 8.8 million meals of beef;

http://www.cicweb.ca/scene/2010/06/israel_aid_to_gaza/

 

[Pardalis]

Good thing that we have you to determine what other people think!

OK, then explain to me what you mean by "occupation of Palestine".

 

[portlandatheist]

Not even that. Have people tell you that they've shipped stuff to Gaza and had it refused entry. Then list those things as banned.

It's possible that many of these items are simply one-offs for whatever reason but that is just speculation on my part.

 

[DC]

No one disputed Gaza is impoverished, Peephole. What I would like you to consider is why Gaza is so impoverished when aid is given to the tune of more than 1 ton of supplies per resident in the last 18 months.

during the Berlin blockade the people of Berlin received about double of that per person.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

during the Berlin blockade the people of Berlin received about double of that per person.

First of all, source, please.

 

[Mycroft]

Found this in a right wing blog:

[/INDENT]I do not have enough information to judge the claims, but currently it seems to me that the definition of banned is applied very loosely here - to include items which could be introduced via humanitarian agencies, but are not allowed for private merchants. (Saying that, it is not clear whether Israel actually banned chocolate, or just denied a few applications. I find it very hard to trust both sides on this issue.)

You're right. I should have spotted that looking at Gisha dot org. It's essentially a list created by word of mouth from Gaza merchants, so it's probably not reliable. Someone could report something by mistake or falsely report something for propaganda value.

 

[theprestige]

Because it's running a blockade.

Running a blockade for its own benefit, to provide for its own security. Making live easy and free for the citizens of Gaza is not the purpose of the blockade, nor should it be.

Making life easy and free for the citizens of Gaza should be the purpose of the government of Gaza. Only, the government of Gaza is Hamas. Oops. How is the government of Gaza Israel's responsibility?

At a minimum, check for weapons if they really have to, but let everything else in and out.

And your qualifications to determine what is and is not a security threat to Israel are what, exactly?

 

[Mycroft]

I disagree, I think what people refer to as "Palestine" is the whole region, which includes the state of Israel.

I think that really depends on who you talk to. Some mean all of it, others just mean the disputed territories.

 

[DC]

First of all, source, please.

http://www.spiritoffreedom.org/airlift.html
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berliner_Luftbrücke
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About+the...li_humanitarian_lifeline_Gaza_25-May-2010.htm

did some calculations with the numbers from those sources.
for total and food only. both ends up in Berlin getting double.
population differences considered.

 

[Mycroft]

during the Berlin blockade the people of Berlin received about double of that per person.

Yeah, but you're talking about Germans. Those are stout people.

 

[Mycroft]

No one disputed Gaza is impoverished, Peephole. What I would like you to consider is why Gaza is so impoverished when aid is given to the tune of more than 1 ton of supplies per resident in the last 18 months.

you know...to be fair to the people who think there is not enough going in, it occurs to me that 1 ton figure could include a lot of fuel oil to keep generators going, or other things that are not food & clothing.

I'd want to know exactly what was counted in that one ton figure.

 

[theprestige]

No one disputed Gaza is impoverished, Peephole. What I would like you to consider is why Gaza is so impoverished when aid is given to the tune of more than 1 ton of supplies per resident in the last 18 months.

1 ton? Seriously? 4,000 pounds?

What I could do in 18 months with 4,000 pounds of aid...

... but wait, maybe I lost both my legs in an Israeli artillery barrage. Wrong place, wrong time, you know. So, no wheelchair. That sucks. I'm housebound. Bummer. Hopefully my primary caregiver is around part of the time, and doesn't spend all day every day at Hamas headquarters, planning terrorism.

And no chocolate, or dried fruit, or other luxury items. Oh the humanity! I'll never be able to survive unless I enjoy the same delicacies as the elites of the world!

Oh, wait... yes I will. Let's see. 18 months, 4,000 pounds. If it's evenly divided amongst over-the-counter medicines, rice, and beans, I should do fine, assuming I have at least a minimum amount of human will to live. And assuming Hamas doesn't hold my wellbeing hostage for propaganda purposes. If my primary care provider is spending most of their time at Hamas HQ, I hope they put in a good word for me!

 

[DC]

Yeah, but you're talking about Germans. Those are stout people.