Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Mycroft]

And that makes it less of a breach of international law how?

Which of the articles of the International Declaration of Human Rights doe this action violate?

Hint.

What was that one about arbitrary arrest and detention?

Perhaps you are confused about the definition of "arbitrary"?

 

[applecorped]

Syria or Lebanon should Blockade Israel for violating their air space or Hungary.

I wonder if the pro blockade people would also support that Blockade.

pro-blockade people? Are you an anti-blockade person?

 

[bit_pattern]

Comments about the peaceful boarding of the Rachel Corrie? Beuller? Didn't think so.

Wot? You mean OTHER than the IDF treating Westerner's different to dirty Arab/Turks?

 

[DC]

pro-blockade people? Are you an anti-blockade person?

good point, im more spolit in that case.
im pro rockets and missiles blockade.
im anti Chocolate and dried fruit blockade.

 

[Mycroft]

Syria or Lebanon should Blockade Israel for violating their air space or Hungary.

I wonder if the pro blockade people would also support that Blockade.

I think everyone agrees that countries should do actions that support their politics, and should not do actions that are against their politics. That's not hypocrisy, that's just holding a political opinion.

But if you switch the issue to legality, that's a different issue. "Legal" is an objective standard that's independent of ones' political beliefs. Or at least it should be, a lot of claims are made that seem based more on personal opinion than actual law.

So under what circumstances are a blockade legal? Does the Israeli blockade fit that definition? Would a similar blockade by Lebanon or Syria also fit that definition? If you're willing to look at the law and make a determination based upon the law, then you're capable of objectivity.

 

[Mycroft]

Wot? You mean OTHER than the IDF treating Westerner's different to dirty Arab/Turks?

Can you show us some evidence here?

 

[DC]

I think everyone agrees that countries should do actions that support their politics, and should not do actions that are against their politics. That's not hypocrisy, that's just holding a political opinion.

But if you switch the issue to legality, that's a different issue. "Legal" is an objective standard that's independent of ones' political beliefs. Or at least it should be, a lot of claims are made that seem based more on personal opinion than actual law.

So under what circumstances are a blockade legal? Does the Israeli blockade fit that definition? Would a similar blockade by Lebanon or Syria also fit that definition? If you're willing to look at the law and make a determination based upon the law, then you're capable of objectivity.

when the blockade is effective its legal, isn't it?

 

[Mycroft]

good point, im more spolit in that case.
im pro rockets and missiles blockade.
im anti Chocolate and dried fruit blockade.

I tend to agree.

I think Gaza should have access to all the chocolate and dried fruit they want. Also all the lawn-chairs, sunscreen, medicine, bicycles and so on.

But the way to accomplish that isn't by running a blockade. The blockade is there to prevent Iran and Syria from providing Hamas with real missiles that can do real damage to Israelis.

So regardless of the motivations behind these "peace activists", if they're successful in bringing an end to the blockade, the result will be the arming of Hamas and an escalation of violence.

 

[Mycroft]

when the blockade is effective its legal, isn't it?

Is that what you took from what I wrote?

That's disappointing. My opinion of you was better than that.

 

[bit_pattern]

Can you show us some evidence here?

It's already been posted at least twice...

http://www.theage.com.au/world/in-their-wake-20100604-xkww.html

 

[bit_pattern]

But the way to accomplish that isn't by running a blockade.

Pray do tell? I'd love to hear an alternative solution.

 

[DC]

Is that what you took from what I wrote?

That's disappointing. My opinion of you was better than that.

well i understood your post that way yes, you asked me when a blockade is legal.

 

[Skeptic]

Syria or Lebanon should Blockade Israel for violating their air space or Hungary.

They would if they could, having fought a few wars whose purpose was to genocide the Jews, hurled missiles into Israel, kidnapped soldiers, etc., etc., etc.

 

[Skeptic]

I believe this is their cue to fall back to the position where this intercept only went peacefully because the activists chose not to exercise their right to mob the boarders but if they had done so the IDF still would be in the wrong to have defended itself. The activists showed restraint in not getting themselves shot again, and Israel showed how it commits terrible acts of provocation...

If some protest or provocation against Israel ends with Israel backing down, it's proof of the weakness of the evil Israel against those who have justice on their side.

If some protest or provocation against Israel ends in violence, it's proof Israel is a nation of thugs and pirates and murderers.

If some protest or provocation against Israel ends without violence or Israel backing down, well, that's just proof there would have been horrible, horrible murderous Israeli violence if it wasn't for the protesters being saints and not falling for the Israeli attempts to temp them into violence.

You can't win with some people.

 

[Mycroft]

well i understood your post that way yes, you asked me when a blockade is legal.

What about the bits about the law being an objective standard and looking at the law to find a definition that could be applied? Did you miss those bits?

 

[Mycroft]

Pray do tell? I'd love to hear an alternative solution.

How about just making a big issue of Gazzans not having enough chocolate and dried fruit, getting as much international press to the issue as is possible and getting Israel to make changes?

How about taking any actions that recognize that both parties in this conflict have rights, not just Palestinians, and that it's not a choice between Israeli right to self-defense and security or Palestinian rights free access to world markets, but that it's possible to compromise so that everybody gets what they need.

Or...is that too complicated?

 

[DC]

What about the bits about the law being an objective standard and looking at the law to find a definition that could be applied? Did you miss those bits?

i dont understand what you mean.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Yup, boarded by sea, no airborne helicopter sound/gas bomb attacks, and just as the whitey's were treated different in detention, ie. not bashed and tortured, so were the whitey's who chose to run the blockade. Such is the nature of the racist Israeli state.

Bashed and tortured....oh the propaganda.

And they're called flash-bangs and tear gas, pretty standard...

 

[Mycroft]

i dont understand what you mean.

I'm not sure how to say it more clearly.

People form opinions about the correctness of a governments actions based on their personal beliefs, but this is subjective.

An objective standard is the law. There are laws about the legality of blockades, some of them have been quoted in this thread.

An objective person should be able to set aside their personal political beliefs and make a determination based on the law.

No, effectiveness wouldn't have anything to do with legality.

 

[quixotecoyote]

No, effectiveness wouldn't have anything to do with legality.

Actually, it would. Now if DC means effective in achieving the political goal, that's inaccurate, but if he means effective in terms of stopping ships, that's accurate.

. In order to be binding a blockade must be effective. The government of the United States has uniformly insisted that the blockade should be effective by the presence of a competent force, stationed and present, at or near the entrance of the port. It must be maintained by a force sufficient to prevent access to ports. Blockades are regulated by international law and custom, which require advance warning to neutral states and impartial application.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blockade/