Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Thunder]

Meanwhile, in the past week 10 rockets and mortars have been fired from Gaza into Israel......

How many Israeli civilians were killed in the attacks?

How many Israeli civilians were injured in the attacks?

sorry bud, but in this world, the level of sympathy a nation gets for an attack, is proportional to the level of human injury or death caused by it.

 

[DC]

That's what I like about you DC, you instantly go for the same level of condemnation of indiscriminate violence against innocent civilians as you do for defensive violence against armed blockade runners. Gives me hope that some kind of reasonable solution is possible.

have you seen me rant against the IDF flying strikes against targets in Gaza?
i rant against nonsense bans punishing civilians and not Hamas.

 

[quixotecoyote]

have you seen me rant against the IDF flying strikes against targets in Gaza?
i rant against nonsense bans punishing civilians and not Hamas.

But not about Hamas shooting rockets (like those the ban makes it difficult to get) at civilians. Those we just joke about.

 

[Nogbad]

That's what I like about you DC, you instantly go for the same level of condemnation of indiscriminate violence against innocent civilians as you do for defensive violence against armed blockade runners. Gives me hope that some kind of reasonable solution is possible.

The firing of the rockets is dumb, indefensible and pretty pointless. However, the necessity to cast a botched coastguard action dealing with a publicity stunt as some heroic action against heavily armed gun runners tells me that no reasonable solution will ever be found unless we can find a way to tow the so called Holy Land to Alpha Centuri and just leave them to get on with it. Neither side in this endless dispute are remotely interested in peace.

 

[portlandatheist]

and his provocation took attention away from a peaceful demonstration.

i wonder how people at a Kristalnacht memorial would react to a Neo-Nazi marching around with a Nazi flag and an SS t-shirt.

Quit the hyperbole. Counter demonstrations happen all the time at just about any political demonstration and there's nothing Neo-Nazi about it. The Westboro Baptist Church (the god hates fags folks) recently demonstrated here in Portland and were met with tons of counter protesters. I'm most certain the WBC folks were offended and provoked but hey, its a free country.

 

[lionking]

How many Israeli civilians were killed in the attacks?

How many Israeli civilians were injured in the attacks?

sorry bud, but in this world, the level of sympathy a nation gets for an attack, is proportional to the level of human injury or death caused by it.

What a ludicrous argument. What, pray tell, was the intent of the rocket attacks. Please compare to the intent of boarding the flotilla.

 

[DC]

But not about Hamas shooting rockets (like those the ban makes it difficult to get) at civilians. Those we just joke about.

no those should stop, thats why i think the IDF is right to strike targets in gaza.

 

[portlandatheist]

I love the woman at 1:25.

It's quite the paradox that the activists claim Israel is the violent bully and Palestine is the victim -- yet whenever the two demonstrate, it's the Palestinians who throw rocks, set things on fire and get themselves arrested, while the Israelis and their supporters show their sympathies peacefully, sometimes under attack from the Palestine crowd.

If I understood her correctly, she yells "You killed my baby!" at the high school student. It's almost as if some of these protesters are suffering from delusions of persecution. They remind me of truthers.

 

[Thunder]

What a ludicrous argument. What, pray tell, was the intent of the rocket attacks. Please compare to the intent of boarding the flotilla.

I didn't say it was fair, only that it is the way it is.

If a terrorist attack hurts no one and kills no one, the level of sympathy is minimal.

If the same attack kills 3 and injures 30, there is more sympathy.

Kill 30 and injure 150? Sympathy will surely be up there.

its just common sense.

I live in NYC, and I barely gave a **** about the "car-bomb" in Times Square. Why not? Cause no one got hurt or killed.

 

[quixotecoyote]

The firing of the rockets is dumb, indefensible and pretty pointless. However, the necessity to cast a botched coastguard action dealing with a publicity stunt as some heroic action against heavily armed gun runners tells me that no reasonable solution will ever be found unless we can find a way to tow the so called Holy Land to Alpha Centuri and just leave them to get on with it. Neither side in this endless dispute are remotely interested in peace.

While I agree that the religious aspect degrades both sides ability to respond rationally (although certainly not equally so), and I do appreciate that you condemn the rocket attacks up front without needing it dragged out of you, I disagree with your other assertions.

The point of the blockade is primarily to stop weapons into Gaza as they have been in the past, rather than to stop food supplies which are rerouted overland as with the case of this flotilla. This publicity stunt was meant to end the blockade, allowing that weapon transport to continue. Even if your international activists were not focused on that, the funders certainly had it in mind.

Also, I disagree with your statement that Israel is not interested in peace. It's made multiple offers with genuine concessions that were turned down, most notably the Camp David offer, which I thought was the best offer the Palestinians could expect and the most Israel could be expected to give.

 

[portlandatheist]

and NONE of them were filled with deadly chocolate, vinegar, or ginger.

I should remind you that the notion that any of these are actually restricted is hearsay.

 

[Thunder]

I should remind you that the notion that any of these are actually restricted is hearsay.

it is a list compiled by these guys:

http://gisha.org/

"Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005, whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians, especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by international and Israeli law."

is it fraudulent? I doubt it.

might there be mistakes? sure why not.

 

[portlandatheist]

it is a list compiled by these guys:

http://gisha.org/

"Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005, whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians, especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by international and Israeli law."

is it fraudulent? I doubt it.

might there be mistakes? sure why not.

It's hearsay. It's neither fraudulent nor true, simply unconfirmed.

 

[bit_pattern]

I should remind you that the notion that any of these are actually restricted is hearsay.

Only because Israel refuses to tell anyone what they doi or don't let in. However, the BBC got hold of documents from a court case that show what is allowed through and when it was first allowed - it's a pretty arbitrary list

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8654337.stm

 

[DC]

It's hearsay. It's neither fraudulent nor true, simply unconfirmed.

then the IDF should release a list. now Gisha has to stick to things that have been blocked by the Israeli case to case decisions

 

[Thunder]

It's hearsay. It's neither fraudulent nor true, simply unconfirmed.

similar lists have been made before. I am confident a good 50% of it is true, especially dealing with the livestock.

 

[Nogbad]

While I agree that the religious aspect degrades both sides ability to respond rationally (although certainly not equally so), and I do appreciate that you condemn the rocket attacks up front without needing it dragged out of you, I disagree with your other assertions.

The point of the blockade is primarily to stop weapons into Gaza as they have been in the past, rather than to stop food supplies which are rerouted overland as with the case of this flotilla. This publicity stunt was meant to end the blockade, allowing that weapon transport to continue. Even if your international activists were not focused on that, the funders certainly had it in mind.

Also, I disagree with your statement that Israel is not interested in peace. It's made multiple offers with genuine concessions that were turned down, most notably the Camp David offer, which I thought was the best offer the Palestinians could expect and the most Israel could be expected to give.

I didn't need it dragged out of me because I do not cheer lead for either side (hairy legs look awful in a ra ra skirt anyway). The Palestinians have suffered more than their fair share of idiots in charge of things and they have made some stupid decisions.

That said there are people on both sides of the divide that are interested in peace but they get drowned out by the screech of the hawks. Arafat and Rabin did make progress in the early 90s. Rabin paid with his life and not at the hands of a Palestinian. I'm not convinced by the arms shipment thing. I don't think the Turks would or could allow that as a NATO country.

I may be proved wrong and a nasty outbreak of peace will sweep the ME but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

(Cyprus, June 1, 2010, 6:30 am) Under darkness of night, Israeli commandoes dropped from a helicopter onto the Turkish passenger ship, Mavi Marmara, and began to shoot the moment their feet hit the deck. They fired directly into the crowd of civilians asleep. According to the live video from the ship, two have been killed, and 31 injured. Al Jazeera has just confirmed the numbers

Sounds like someone has played the Crew Expendable mission of Modern Warfare.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I'm not convinced by the arms shipment thing. I don't think the Turks would or could allow that as a NATO country.

Snipping the stuff I agree with (although I think you give Arafat too much credit), the way I understand blockades working, it's only legal if you stop ALL ships. If you are partial in your application and decided to let ships from Turkey through, the blockade might violate international law in point of fact, and not just in talking points.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/blockade/

 

[Stout]

When will freegaza.org retract its press release that says IDF soldiers fired into sleeping civilians immediately upon boarding?

Still no luck getting a response to that one hey ? Well all I got was silence too when I posted it and considering it was the first thing out re news about this issue, so far it's done nothing more than set a precedent for activist eyewitness credibility.

Even when Amy Goodman interviewed Adam Shapiro, who is a board member of the Free Gaza Movement, this little nugget, this accusation of cold blooded murder, was never mentioned for some strange reason.

The silence is also deafening over the issue of when Egypt opened the border crossing, Hamas, kept those Gazans who wanted to escape, penned in with automatic weapons. So the next time we hear that Gaza id the worlds largest open air prison we can confidently identify Hamas as the wardens.