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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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bit_pattern said:
Two objective account of the whole debacle from Australian journalist Paul McGeough:

Suddenly, sound bombs and tear gas exploded

In their wake

Details of the scuffle are a lot more nuances than some video footage suggests, yes commando's were attacked, but at the same time other activists tried to protect them from attack. Well worth the read.
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Interesting reports.

Reading it highlights the success of Israel's information control strategy. Witness the Pavlovian focus of much of the discussion on this thread, dominated and directed by videos of the chosen the few minutes, posters barking up a blind alley at the bone someone has hung out for them to chew.


carlitos said:
To the Westerners posting here, something to consider. In the Arab world in particular, the concept of "face" is much more powerful than the concept of "truth." This is why blaming the Jews works, and why people believe in conspiracy theories at a higher rate over there. Just a thought.
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A lot of people posting here, many of them apparently Westerners, are believing Israel's conspiracy theories without any problems. Blaming "terrorists", “Islam”, “Arabs” etc. works as well as blaming Jews.

In fact, blaming anyone works well if one wants to avoid responsibility for one's actions.

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One Skunk Todd said:
No. Although it has been mentioned several times in other posts from (I think) different sources, all Israeli sources I imagine.
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Why do you put weight on evidence provided by the alleged criminals, who are in total control of the crime scene, the very scene of their own, alleged crime?


My understanding of police and military training is that a gun is not for incapacitating people. If you are using your firearm you are trying to stop the threat against you by killing the attacker as quickly as possible.
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Sad.

I don't allege they were wearing the vests. I have seen reports that the attackers on the ship wore these vests and I have seen pictures of vests reportedly seized from the ship, but I have not seen any photos of any passenger on the ship actually wearing one of these vests.
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So what's your point? What's wrong with protecting yourself against bullets? The commandos were wearing body armor. Should they have repelled onto the deck in their underwear to make it a fair fight?

Because people were trying to kill them, or at least they believed people were trying to kill them.

Other posts have mentioned press members being shot. If true this is probably an unfortunate side-effect of the soldiers having to make snap decisions about something being pointed at them. I think in both cases the reporters are said to have been pointing cameras.
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Can you tell me who was shot, where they were, what they were doing and who shot them? If you cannot, then how you can make the claim that these people were shot in self defense?
 
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so to date, the folks on the boats have been called:

-mercenaries
-terrorists
-Al-Qaeda supporters
-suicide activists (my personal favorite)

any more cute labels the Israelis will come up with?

how about "Water-Nazis"..

or maybe "Sea-Rags".

what about "Islamo-Pirates".

;)
 
JihadJane said:
Why do you put weight on evidence provided by the alleged criminals, who are in total control of the crime scene, the very scene of their own, alleged crime?
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I don't think they are criminals, alleged or otherwise. I think, to their discredit as professionals, that they allowed themselves to be suckered into a violent confrontation that the people on the boat deliberately provoked. What should they have done? I have no idea, although I would disagree with the proposition of allowing the ship to continue unimpeded.

JihadJane said:
So what's your point? What's wrong with protecting yourself against bullets? The commandos were wearing body armor. Should they have repelled onto the deck in their underwear to make it a fair fight?
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Have any interdictions by the IDF resulted in violent deaths before now? If not then why would they expect to need protection against gunfire unless they specifically intended to provoke such violence.

JihadJane said:
Can you tell me who was shot, where they were and what they were doing? If you cannot, then how you can make the claim that these people were shot in self defense?
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Can you demonstrate that any person on the ship who was shot was not actively attacking the Israeli soldiers?
 
Thunder said:
so to date, the folks on the boats have been called:

-mercenaries
-terrorists
-Al-Qaeda supporters
-suicide activists (my personal favorite)

any more cute labels the Israelis will come up with?

how about "Water-Nazis"..

or maybe "Sea-Rags".

what about "Islamo-Pirates".

;)
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:) Don't forget that they were on the "Hate Ship".
 
Thunder said:
So says the right-wing extremist, who calls the folks on the aid flotilla "terrorists".

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5990161#post5990161

"Yes, terrorists."
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I am far from being a right-wing extremist. Very far.
Since the protesters on the ship are believed to be linked to Al - Qaeda I will call them terrorists until proven otherwise. It really doesn't matter if they are from Al-quaeda or not. What they did was a terroristic act.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government...1-May-2010.htm
"In a special meeting of the Israeli Security Cabinet on Tuesday (June 1), it was disclosed that approximately 40 people on the upper deck of the ship with no identification wearing bullet proof vests and using weapons against the IDF soldiers are considered to be mercenaries of the al-Qaeda terror organization.
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This should help clear up the matter for everyone:
International_Law_Flowchart.jpg
 
yairhol said:
I am far from being a right-wing extremist. Very far. Since the protesters on the ship are believed to be linked to Al-Qaeda I will call them terrorists until proven otherwise. It really doesn't matter if they are from Al-quaeda or not. What they did was a terroristic act.
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classic right-wing Neo-Fascist BS.

by the way, Israel has withdrawn their stupid and irresponsible accusation of ties to Al-Qaeda. Perhaps you should too.
 
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Safe-Keeper said:
:D
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Put in my pictures and also sent it to some newspapers... just said it was "stolen from the internet" since I didn't know if you'd do it yourself, just that they won't think I'm the author. Of course today if they really want they can search and find your post... You forgot a "no" between "victims are Arabs" and "Actions follow international law", BTW.
 
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bigjelmapro said:
Yeah, I have a hard time imagining 60 soldiers partaking in detaining a person.

In addition to:


Even more extreme than 1 allegation of a IDF parachuting whilst firing a MAG.
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yeah the human body offers not enough surface for 60-120 hands :D
and then while you are ganked by a 60 man IDF Zerg, your still able to count them.
ever tried to count a group with more than 20 people `? :D
 
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