Chinese workers pay a price for no Labor Unions.

[NewtonTrino]

Typically the factories over there supply food and housing (dorm style).

Bunnie's blog make some interesting reading if you want to read about factory life.
http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=7&paged=5

I picked page 5 but you can move back and forth and read all kinds of his experiences over there.

 

[carlitos]

Thanks to Foolmewunz for the insight. As someone who sources a lot of stuff in China, I had always wondered about whether things were getting better. Measuring worker return after the New Year is a very interesting way to look at it, both in terms of the industrial provinces, and the home provinces of the workers.

 

[Eddie Dane]

That is why Wolfman needs to stay on the forum.

Also, I heard the Chinese eat babies, is that true?

No.

That's Jews and Muslims.

 

[DOC]

Here is an article that goes into some detail about the situation at the complex.

From the article
iPad Factory On The Firing Line - Worker Suicides Have Electronics Maker Uneasy In China
2010-05-28 15:20:53 (6 days ago)
Posted By: Intellpuke from the Website Free Internet Press


"Ma Xiangqian, 18, was part of this peculiar Foxconn world, where everything is numbered: buildings, machines, component parts, finished products and, of course, people. For wages of up to 1,940 yuan per month (€230, or $285), the young man from Henan province spent his 12-hour shifts shoving plastic pieces into a machine that formed casings for Apple computers. Then he went home to sleep with nine colleagues in a room of one of the many dormitory blocks on the factory complex."

https://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=25887

It goes on to say that the family is suspicious of Ma's death. And that unusual marks were found on his upper body and what looks to be a drill hole in his head. The family wants to contest the official version in court. The article also says Ma was made to clean a toilet after getting into a beef with a supervisor.

It also says a video was released that allegedly shows Foxconn security guards in Bejiing hitting and kicking workers.

The article above also says this:

On Foxconn streets, workers are allowed to walk alongside each other only in pairs. If there are three of them, they must form a line...

...The men and women in white uniform coats and bonnets are forbidden from holding personal conversations. This rule is printed on the flip side of their corporate I.D.s. The only sound is a whistle and hiss from the machines where they push green circuit-boards for laptops or credit-card readers.

 

[Cleon]

That is why Wolfman needs to stay on the forum.

Also, I heard the Chinese eat babies, is that true?

Yeah, but the thing with eating Chinese babies is that 30 minutes later you're just hungry again.

 

[blutoski]

Ummm...the Chinese press was rather quick to point out that A) the jumpers could just go to other buildings, and B) they could avoid the nets by just jumping out further. Its not like someone who intends to commit suicide -- for whatever reason -- is gonna' jump into a net. I really don't see how this can be classified as a "sensible idea", except perhaps in terms of insurance and liability (he can try to claim that he took measures to prevent damage from jumping from his buildings).

It's becoming standard practice, though. The [Golden Gate Bridge may be similarly equpped]. We're considering it in Vancouver for the Burrard and Granville and Lions Gate where the bridge decks are positioned above land.

My impression is that it's intended to demonstrate that they at least did *something*.

 

[carlitos]

Yeah, but the thing with eating Chinese babies is that 30 minutes later you're just hungry again.

That's why the Chinese eat Jewish and Muslim babies? Makes sense.

 

[KDLadage]

Well... there was that whole Great Leap Forward period (and other Mao movements) when cannibalism took place... but that is all over now.

<wipes mouth>

Anyone have some soy sauce?

 

[joobz]

The article above also says this:

Are you talking to yourself?

 

[six7s]

This is outrageous. 10 workers in 5 months.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...a-Foxconn-factory-conditions-10-suicides.html

This is the price that Chinese workers pay no Labor Unions?



Please do explain which module on that course in logic (y'know... the one where you got an A) equipped you with the skills to jump to such conclusions

 

[six7s]

At the risk of continuing an existing theme with your topics, will you be providing evidence that these workers committed suicide because they are not in a labor union?

You're funny... in a ha-ha kinda way! I do like that

Srsly... going by his abysmal track-record, hell will freeze over before DOC provides evidence to support any of the nonsense he uses to litter his OPs

 

[Wolfman]

The article above also says this:

On Foxconn streets, workers are allowed to walk alongside each other only in pairs. If there are three of them, they must form a line...

...The men and women in white uniform coats and bonnets are forbidden from holding personal conversations. This rule is printed on the flip side of their corporate I.D.s. The only sound is a whistle and hiss from the machines where they push green circuit-boards for laptops or credit-card readers.

DOC,

Your whole problem here is that you draw wide conclusions from a single instance (a trend I see throughout a majority of your posts).

As I said before, this is a Taiwanese company. In Taiwan -- where they do have labor unions -- they have similar policies, and higher suicide rates.

So yes...there are problems at this plant, things that personally I'd like to see changed. But the claim that it is because of the lack of a labor union not only has no credible evidence to support it, but quite strong evidence to refute it.

 

[six7s]

1) there is in average in the population of china something like 99 death per 100000 (WHO stats) people per year.
2) There are 30000 employed in foxcon. So One would expect about 30 death this year per suicide among foxcon worker.

Conclusion the 10 is *NOT* surprising.

What is surprising is that the media took that up.

Looking at the WHO site, I suspect you made a simple mistake in reading the stats...

99 is the year

Suicide Rates (per 100,000), by country, year, and gender.
Most recent year available. As of May 2003.

Country | Year | Males | Females | Average
NEW ZEALAND | 98 | 23.7 | 6.9 | 15.3
DENMARK | 98 | 20.9 | 8.1 | 14.5
CHINA (Selected rural & urban areas) | 99 | 13 | 14.8 | 13.9
SWEDEN | 99 | 19.7 | 8 | 13.85
GERMANY | 99 | 20.2 | 7.3 | 13.75
SLOVAKIA | 0 | 22.6 | 4.9 | 13.75
REPUBLIC OF KOREA | 0 | 18.8 | 8.3 | 13.55
CHINA (Hong Kong SAR) | 99 | 16.7 | 9.8 | 13.25
NORWAY | 99 | 19.5 | 6.8 | 13.15
AUSTRALIA | 99 | 21.2 | 5.1 | 13.15
ROMANIA | 1 | 20.8 | 3.9 | 12.35
CANADA | 98 | 19.5 | 5.1 | 12.3
ICELAND | 97 | 19.1 | 5.2 | 12.15
SURINAME | 92 | 16.6 | 7.2 | 11.9
BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA | 91 | 20.3 | 3.3 | 11.8
KYRGYZSTAN | 99 | 19.3 | 4 | 11.65
IRELAND | 99 | 18.4 | 4.3 | 11.35
TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO | 94 | 17.4 | 5 | 11.2
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA | 99 | 17.6 | 4.1 | 10.85
INDIA | 98 | 12.2 | 9.1 | 10.65

Interpreting nation-by-nation stats is rarely, if ever, a simple task... even for the least contentious issues... and stats for suicides are notoriously error-prone - given that cultural and political attitudes to suicide vary so much... for some, the whole issue is taboo, so embarrassing they are willing to lie

For example:
cbsnews.com VA Hid Suicide Risk, Internal E-Mails Show
Follow-Up Reporting On Exclusive Investigation Reveals Officials Hid Numbers

April 21, 2008

In a recently filed lawsuit, the Department of Veterans Affairs is accused of deliberately misinforming the American public about the number of veterans committing suicide. <snip/>

The charges were backed by internal e-mails written by Dr. Ira Katz, the VA's head of Mental Health.

In the past, Katz has repeatedly insisted while the risk of suicide among veterans is serious, it's not outside the norm.

"There is no epidemic in suicide in VA," Katz told Keteyian in November.

But in this e-mail to his top media adviser, written two months ago, Katz appears to be saying something very different, stating: "Our suicide prevention coordinators are identifying about 1,000 suicide attempts per month among veterans we see in our medical facilities."

Katz's e-mail was written shortly after the VA provided CBS News data showing there were only 790 attempted suicides in all 2007 - a fraction of Katz's estimate.

<snip/>

And it appears that Katz went out of his way to conceal these numbers.

...CBS News showed the e-mail to Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., who chairs the House Committee on Veterans Affairs.

"This is disgraceful. This is a crime against our nation, our nation's veterans," Filner told CBS News. "They do not want to come to grips with the reality, with the truth."

<snip/>

Anyhoo... I am confident that you (along with all others who come here to think) recognise, this is merely one more in a long line of nonsense-based threads begun in a vain attempt to promote the delusions of the OP

 

[Foolmewunz]

<snip>

Anyhoo... I am confident that you (along with all others who come here to think) recognise, this is merely one more in a long line of nonsense-based threads begun in a vain attempt to promote the delusions of the OP

Oh, you're just saying that because you're siding with THE UNION REP AT THE FOXCONN/HON HAI FACTORY IN SHENZHEN.

Admittedly, it's essentially a state-run (or more accurately, CPC run), bogus union, but maybe DOC will reword that OP. "Chinese workers pay a price for enterprise capitalism being allowed in an autocratic and rigidly managed society and economy, even if they have a crappy union."

 

[six7s]

Oh, you're just saying that because you're siding with THE UNION REP AT THE FOXCONN/HON HAI FACTORY IN SHENZHEN.

No

I'm saying that because - like all Chinese (even the christians) - I am a baby-munching, kryptonite peddling atheist intent on subverting teh truth, teh justice, and teh AmWay!

 

[kevinquinnyo]

Wolfman,

How would you rate cat and dog meat versus beef or chicken?

And which is better, cat or dog?

I'm not being flippant by the way, I'm really just curious.

 

[Wolfman]

Wolfman,

How would you rate cat and dog meat versus beef or chicken?

And which is better, cat or dog?

I'm not being flippant by the way, I'm really just curious.

lol

The times I've eaten cat or dog, it has been in very poor communities. Generally, it will be a situation where I've done something (or helped organize something) to help the local people. They want to show their gratitude, so they host a dinner for me. They know that "foreigners like meat", but don't have much money, so beef, pork, or other such meats actually can cost too much.

Instead, they'll provide dog, cat, snake, or other such local 'delicacies' that are available for free, or at very minimal cost.

While I'm not keen on eating dog or cat, to say no to them in such a situation would only be insulting..."You are primitive savages to eat such stuff, I'm a refined foreigner, I'd never eat something like that!"

So I eat it.

It doesn't happen often (I've had cat once, dog twice).

As to the taste...the dog I had was kinda' like stringy beef; the cat was more tender, but with a slightly sour taste. And I should stress that it wasn't presented to me as a whole animal...the meat was all cut up into small bite-sized pieces (as Chinese food usually is), so if you didn't already know what it was, you probably wouldn't be able to guess.

 

[PixyMisa]

1) there is in average in the population of china something like 99 death per 100000 (WHO stats) people per year.

Except that's the year, not the statistic. The reported statistic is 13.0

2) There are 30000 employed in foxcon. So One would expect about 30 death this year per suicide among foxcon worker.

Except that Foxconn employs something between 400,000 and 800,000 workers (!), depending on where I get the number from.

However, the two errors neatly cancel out, so that -

Conclusion the 10 is *NOT* surprising.

Is quite correct after all. In fact, you'd expect between 50 and 100 per year for that population, so 10 in 5 months is a little on the low side. (Ignoring all the confounding factors, such that this is only looking at people with jobs, and unemployment is a significant risk factor for suicide.)

All in all, the assertion in the OP is entirely unwarranted based on this data.

 

[Aepervius]

Except that's the year, not the statistic. The reported statistic is 13.0


Except that Foxconn employs something between 400,000 and 800,000 workers (!), depending on where I get the number from.

However, the two errors neatly cancel out, so that -


Is quite correct after all. In fact, you'd expect between 50 and 100 per year for that population, so 10 in 5 months is a little on the low side. (Ignoring all the confounding factors, such that this is only looking at people with jobs, and unemployment is a significant risk factor for suicide.)

All in all, the assertion in the OP is entirely unwarranted based on this data.

I read that, and I had to explode in laugh.

Aepervius note to Aepervius : learn to read , man.

 

[six7s]

All in all, the assertion in the OP is entirely unwarranted based on this data.

Indeed

However, the assertion in the OP is entirely consistent based on his track record of blending incredibly weird and wonderful concoctions of fear-fueled ignorance into exceedingly vague so-called arguments in OPs of threads that, for him, do nothing other than reinforce his A-grade delusions