Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[Belz...]

What I learned from the thread so far: There is no middle ground when it comes to the subject of Israel, apparently. Either they can do no wrong and are merely defending themselves, or they're monsters who hate (or eat) children.

Oddly, I think the truth must be somewhere in the middle. Hopefully with no child eating.

 

[Doctor Evil]

Found this to be interesting:

What the videos don’t show, however, are several curious aspects Israeli authorities are now investigating. First, about 100 of those detained from the boats were carrying immense sums in their pockets — nearly a million euros in total. Second, Israel discovered spent bullet cartridges on the Mavi Marmara that are of a caliber not used by the Israeli commandos, some of whom suffered gunshot wounds. Also found on the boat were propaganda clips showing passengers “injured” by Israeli forces; these videos, however, were filmed during daylight, hours before the nighttime operation occurred.

 

[Cleon]

Hopefully with no child eating.

But I'm hungry, dammit!

 

[JihadJane]

Were those gas masks for civilians in Gaza?

Possibly, though it is a sensible precaution for an activist to equip themself with a gas mask. Demonstrators are often attacked with gas. Indeed, Israel's violent assault included attacking people with gas.

.



Appeal to emotion. Silly. Does not advance the debate in any direction.

When you have a response that consists of more than an abstract assertion and saying "silly", get back to me.

What makes them say this? Are they privy to either Israel's own recorded footage, or the Turkish and other journalists recorded footage?

No, they have noticed that the Israeli military is operating by tried and tested propaganda protocols - set the press agenda, get your narrative in first and control what information enters the media for the critical period when the story is initially being implanted in the public consciousness and for as long as possible after that.

 

[IDB87]

Possibly, though it is a sensible precaution for an activist to equip themself with a gas mask. Demonstrators are often attacked with gas. Indeed, Israel's violent assault included attacking people with gas.

Again, expecting a confrontation. Gas masks defeat tear gas, and the wearer is still able to function. Puts the person using the tear gas in a dangerous position.

When you have a response that consists of more than an abstract assertion and saying "silly", get back to me.

Your interpretation of events require rebuttal? Hijack, heavily armed, defending, kidnapped, robbed - all colorful words that paint a picture the way you want it to look, and appeals to others emotions.

No, they have noticed that the Israeli military is operating by tried and tested propaganda protocols - set the press agenda, get your narrative in first and control what information enters the media for the critical period when the story is initially being implanted in the public consciousness and for as long as possible after that.

So, they aren't privy to any footage, and are just going on a hunch?

 

[bobdroege7]

remember folks, there were NO civilians on these boats. they were all terrorists.

Did I say they were terrorists?

NO, I said they were engaged in an act of war.

And since we don't know the whereabouts of a certain Corporal Shalit, I conclude that the recent hostivities between Israel and the residents of the Gaza strip have not come to a peaceful conclusion.

I say it is time for peace, lay down the weapons.

Or accept the consequences.

And we don't know for sure that Israel has nuclear weapons, there is still a slight bit of doubt.
But they do have the technology to make them, so even if they gave them up, we would still never know if they had any or not.

You want humanitarian aid to reach Gaza, send it through the proper channels.

Israel has the capability to inspect it all, to make sure no missles or other weapons are getting in.

Sometimes it takes violence to prevent violence.

And that Israel has the right to do.

 

[bynmdsue]

www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=177320

Guess it's not that important.

 

[JihadJane]

Found this to be interesting:

As Israel controls the crime scene (the scene of their crime!) any forensic evidence they offer is, unfortunately, worthless.

The article, as one would expect from Israel’s ambassador to the United States, makes a lot of arrogant assumptions (Quotes in italics), e.g.:

"YouTube viewers saw Israeli troops, armed with crowd-dispersing paintball guns and side arms for emergency protection"

I didn't see troops trained in crowd control. I saw commandos trained to shoot first and ask questions later.

"There is little doubt as to the real purpose of the Mavi Marmara’s voyage — not to deliver humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, but to create a provocation that would put international pressure on Israel to drop the Gaza embargo, and thus allow the flow of seaborne military supplies to Hamas"

I doubt it. So do millions of others!

"The real intent of breaking the embargo is to allow rockets to be transported to Gaza from Hamas’s suppliers in Syria and Iran"

Is it really, ambassador or are you just saying that because it distracts from the atrocity that Israel has just perpetrated?

"The investigations of all this evidence will be transparent, in accordance with Israel’s security needs."

Made me laugh!


"We, too, want a free Gaza"

Made me roll around on the floor.

 

[carlitos]

PR

Found this to be interesting:

Hmm. Sadly, it wouldn't be the first time that Palestinians faked injuries and being attacked. We have the fake dead guy arising after his "funeral," we have "green helmet guy," we have recycled photos from 2005 "proving" a massacre in 2009. Not to mention all of the staged photos from the local photographers on the ground there. I mean really, do photographers flock from all over the world to take photos of a guy looking through his "house key" on the anniversary of the Nakba? Plus the whole "Jenin massacre" thing, which was straight out of hollywood.

I don't know if the flotilla participants are aware of these shenanigans or not. If they are, then their propaganda is as bad as Israel's. If they aren't, they are the definition of useful idiots.

 

[JihadJane]

And we don't know for sure that Israel has nuclear weapons, there is still a slight bit of doubt.


But they do have the technology to make them, so even if they gave them up, we would still never know if they had any or not.

Sure, and Mordechai Vanunu doesn't exist either.

 

[Thunder]

And we don't know for sure that Israel has nuclear weapons, there is still a slight bit of doubt.

Right. And close to 6 million Jews didn't die during WW2.

 

[Thunder]

www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=177320

Guess it's not that important.

"Hamas officials on Wednesday refused to allow into the Gaza Strip 21 truckloads of humanitarian aid that had been offloaded from the Gaza-bound flotilla ships currently docked at Ashdod Port, until “all” of those detained in Monday’s naval raid were released."

Who ever said Hamas was the good guys in this whole stinking mess?

Both Israel & Hamas are acting like pathetic little children. Perhaps the EU, UN, and NATO should just invade Gaza, take it over, and rule the place.

 

[JihadJane]

Again, expecting a confrontation. Gas masks defeat tear gas, and the wearer is still able to function. Puts the person using the tear gas in a dangerous position.

What bizarre logic! Are you in law enforcement, by any chance?

And of course the flotilla expected confrontation. They were challenging Israel's siege of Gaza.

Your interpretation of events require rebuttal? Hijack, heavily armed, defending, kidnapped, robbed - all colorful words that paint a picture the way you want it to look, and appeals to others emotions.

No, they just don't accord with your preferred version of events.

So, they aren't privy to any footage, and are just going on a hunch?

You don't need a hunch to know that, after the ships' communications with the outside world were cut off and the activists silenced, the only initial information the media had about events came from the Israeli military.

 

[Thunder]

Obviously, they knew that the Israelis would do something. What the extent of the Israeli interaction would be....was anyone's guess.

Do I believe they thought they would be at least boarded and maybe even attacked? Possibly.

Though I am sure that when the Russians and the Americans went to free concentration camps, they didn't expect the Germans to just let them do whatever they liked.

I am sure that Martin Luther King Jr. and the hundreds who marched with him in Selma Alabama, knew that the cops were just waiting to kick ass.

 

[carlitos]

"Thunder," are you at all familiar with Godwin's Law^WP?

 

[IDB87]

I didn't see troops trained in crowd control. I saw commandos trained to shoot first and ask questions later.

Did you actually see these commandos shooting? I don't think you did, so this is worthless. You don't know the situation they, or the people they shot, were in. But, speak from a position of authority, please.

What was with the paintball guns, JJ? Are markers generally lethal?

Your own link even states that the Commandos didn't start shooting until the third or fourth commando had either been thrown to the lower decks or beaten on by a mob, and that was from the second helicopter, not the first.

I doubt it. So do millions of others!

They knew they could not break the blockade. They went in expecting a confrontation. What was their goal, except for international pressure to lift the blockade?

Is it really, ambassador or are you just saying that because it distracts from the atrocity that Israel has just perpetrated?

Is it illogical to assume that Hamas wouldn't smuggle weapons on maritime traffic?

 

[quixotecoyote]

What I learned from the thread so far: There is no middle ground when it comes to the subject of Israel, apparently. Either they can do no wrong and are merely defending themselves, or they're monsters who hate (or eat) children.

Oddly, I think the truth must be somewhere in the middle. Hopefully with no child eating.

I believe you are confusing "can do no wrong and are merely defending themselves" with "did do no wrong and were merely defending themselves." Because in the case of this blockade interception, there hasn't been much evidence otherwise. The blockade was used to stop weapons to and put pressure on a regime whose leaders call for genocide. The aid from the intercepted ships was routed for humanitarian purposes. And as far as the evidence goes, the only activists injured were those who fought the soldiers doing the intercept.

 

[IDB87]

What bizarre logic! Are you in law enforcement, by any chance?

What makes it bizarre? If an activist wears a gas mask, they are protected from tear gas. You can see in several videos that gas masks are indeed worn while attacking the Commandos, and there are several photos of commandos using tear-gas. So, one way of putting down the activists (in a non-lethal way) is negated and the fighting escalates.

And of course the flotilla expected confrontation. They were challenging Israel's siege of Gaza.

So, was their goal to actually break through the blockade, or was it to put themselves in a situation where Israel would respond?

No, they just don't accord with your preferred version of events.

I'm not really into overplaying emotions. It tends to make someone view an event in a certain way which might compromise their skepticism.

You don't need a hunch to know that, after the ships' communications with the outside world were cut off and the activists silenced, the only initial information the media had about events came from the Israeli military.

Initial information. There were over 600 people on board that ship. Do you really think they can silence that many people? That is a lot of witnesses.

 

[One Skunk Todd]

What was with the paintball guns, JJ? Are markers generally lethal?

I think law enforcement and military have access to special purpose paint balls filled with tear gas/pepper spray compounds. Having played a little I can say from experience regular paintballs sting on impact, even through 2 light shirts and a medium weight jacket.

I've only ever heard of one person being killed with a paintball, and I believe they were hit in the eye.

 

[Cleon]

I've only ever heard of one person being killed with a paintball, and I believe they were hit in the eye.

It's all fun and games, until...