Reiki friend

Baby Nemesis said:
If she thinks she's going to be healing people of physical ailments, then you could try to sow a few seeds of doubt in her mind by showing her some evidence that Reiki isn't effective in doing that. You don't have to be combative; you could surely simply put it to her as a "What if" dilemma, this kind of thing: "What if it turns out that some people who come to you really need medical treatment? Would you advise they see a doctor as well as coming to you?" "What if Raiki doesn't do everything you think it does? I found something on the Internet the other day ...". That kind of thing.
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How many Woo's, committed enough to become a practitioner of their brand of wooishness, have ever been shown the light of reason and come back from the dark side?

She's not an old lady paying for a cat psychic, she's Reiki MASTER. Who gives up superpowers once they've been told they have them?
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
How many Woo's, committed enough to become a practitioner of their brand of wooishness, have ever been shown the light of reason and come back from the dark side?

She's not an old lady paying for a cat psychic, she's Reiki MASTER. Who gives up superpowers once they've been told they have them?
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HTF does one become a Reiki Master anyway?
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
You pay X amount of money to an existing master, and they say "you are now a Reiki master".
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Well it's all good then. Hang out your shingle and give medical advice without having to take all them pesky med classes. Noice!
 
Resume said:
HTF does one become a Reiki Master anyway?
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Take a two day course: $650.00 with a $200.00 non-refundable deposit

Assuming of course that you already have Advanced Reiki Training (also two days $225.00 with a $75.00) Which in turn means taking Reiki I and II (which blow me down with a feather is also a two days course costing $350.00 with a $150.00)

If that sounds like a lot of money fear not. After the first two courses you can start building your practice, after the third course you can deliver training and grant other people similar magical powers. Apparently it's best to charge money as the clients prefer it if you charge

It can be fun to spot similarities between Reiki teaching practices and pyramid schemes. Audience participation in such sport can add greatly to the edutainment.
 
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Ocelot said:
Take a two day course: $650.00 with a $200.00 non-refundable deposit

Assuming of course that you already have Advanced Reiki Training (also two days $225.00 with a $75.00) Which in turn means taking Reiki I and II (which blow me down with a feather is also a two days course costing $350.00 with a $150.00)

If that sounds like a lot of money fear not. After the first two courses you can start building your practice, after the third course you can deliver training and grant other people similar magical powers. Apparently it's best to charge money as the clients prefer it if you charge

It can be fun to spot similarities between Reiki teaching practices and pyramid schemes. Audience participation in such sport can add greatly to the edutainment.
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Funny, yet reprehensible all at the same time.
 
Ocelot said:
Take a two day course: $650.00 with a $200.00 non-refundable deposit

Assuming of course that you already have Advanced Reiki Training (also two days $225.00 with a $75.00) Which in turn means taking Reiki I and II (which blow me down with a feather is also a two days course costing $350.00 with a $150.00)

If that sounds like a lot of money fear not. After the first two courses you can start building your practice, after the third course you can deliver training and grant other people similar magical powers. Apparently it's best to charge money as the clients prefer it if you charge

It can be fun to spot similarities between Reiki teaching practices and pyramid schemes. Audience participation in such sport can add greatly to the edutainment.
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Thus they Reiki in the money!
 
So, according to Ocelot, not only did your friend get scammed in to thinking she gained magical powers, she was scammed harder and longer than the regular saps.

That's impressive stuff.

Is there a fool Olympics? :)
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
How many Woo's, committed enough to become a practitioner of their brand of wooishness, have ever been shown the light of reason and come back from the dark side?

She's not an old lady paying for a cat psychic, she's Reiki MASTER. Who gives up superpowers once they've been told they have them?
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I wouldn't know. But I'd assume it depends partly whether she's more committed to promoting herself as a wonder-worker or to caring for others. If the latter, she'll surely heed the concerns about whether her activities might inhibit people from seeking the medical treatment they need. If the former, probably not. That's just a guess, since I haven't had much experience with such people. But I'm sure many must put the people they're caring for first.
 
bumlet5 said:
That's not exactly fair, is it?
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Well sometimes in life the truth can hurt or appear unfair but you'll thank me later.

bumlet5 said:
Part of a business is "taking money" in exchange for a service, is it not?
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Forget the literal meaning of the words, it's the inference I'm looking at Bumlet
bumlet5 said:
If she gets a client who has arthritis and doesn't know it, but keeps coming in to her to get their knee healed in exchange for being paid, how can I (as a moral person) support that?
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Again you are solely conjouring up thoughts of what might happen when in reality it's not something that is happenning. It's a negative outlook.

bumlet5 said:
Like I said, I don't care if she believes she can do it in her own mind, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof.
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forgive my snicker..
 
Choose your battles. Things to consider (in no order)
1. If you lose your friend over this, will she be handicapped in giving Reiki?
2. Can you realistically make her change her mind?
3. How much harm is she actually doing?
4. How much is this friendship worth?
5. If you keep this friendship how much extra stress will it give you?
6. Can you influence what she does, either short or long term?
7. How much is this friendship worth to you?
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
How many Woo's, committed enough to become a practitioner of their brand of wooishness, have ever been shown the light of reason and come back from the dark side?

She's not an old lady paying for a cat psychic, she's Reiki MASTER. Who gives up superpowers once they've been told they have them?
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I never was certified as a Reiki Master, but I was a dowser and what would today be called something like a "Healing Sensitive" when I was (much) younger. I was not so much "shown the light of reason" as encouraged to shine that light onto my personal so-called gifts and abilities.

What do you know? My ability to find hidden objects vanished when there wasn't a person who had seen them hidden in the room! It only took three trials to convince me that I had been indulging in some kind of self-deception--once I actually decided that I needed to really test it.

The energy/healing sensitivity did not require that direct a test, as reading a few issues of Skeptical Inquirer where such things were being discussed was enough to make me abashedly abandon my efforts. (I do still give a great backrub, though.)

This Forum and the JREF / skeptic community per se is full of former practitioners and/or believers who have realized they were mistaken. It's a humbling process, but one whose integrity you should admire, instead of assuming that ignorance is the same as stupidity or avarice.

Just my thoughts, Miss_Kitt
 
Miss_Kitt said:
This Forum and the JREF / skeptic community per se is full of former practitioners and/or believers who have realized they were mistaken. It's a humbling process, but one whose integrity you should admire, instead of assuming that ignorance is the same as stupidity or avarice.
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Again, show me a master/preacher/cosmic messiah who dropped their woo.

I'm well aware that all manner of people come to their senses about woo every day. I was an ardent believer in ghosts myself until I was clued in to vivid/waking dreams and never looked back.

If you are leading/teaching woo, rather than just participating, you are either desperate/mentally ill, in which case no amount of evidence will penetrate, or you know it's crap but are bilking people. I feel no need to use kid gloves on either.

This is not someone telling their friends to go see Madame Zelda the fortune teller, this is someone who spend 2 years, and I assume a lot of money, learning to do new age faith healing. She may be a lovely woman in every other aspect, but her woo will be impervious to all logic.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see"
 
Bumlet5, a significantly friendly gesture I think would be to ask her about her "professional" ethics. I put professional in quotations because Reiki practitioners are not licensed.

I doubt you could cause bad blood by encouraging her, at the very least, never to diagnose, prescribe, or treat. Aside from the issue of deceiving or bilking people, she could potentially get into legal trouble if she does any of those things (diagnose, prescribe, or treat).

A friend would encourage another friend to operate only within the scope of their practice. What's the scope of a Reiki practice? I don't know exactly. If I were her, I would claim nothing more than to be facilitating stress reduction and relaxation (which are clinically proven to have beneficial effects on the body). Does that mean her doing Reiki is causing the beneficial effects, or even relaxation? No. Certainly it is relaxing to have a person lay their warm hands on you...

Personally I struggle with whether or not to forcibly wake up my family and friends too. For instance, I was raised Mormon until I was 12 or so. Half of my family is still practicing. There's loads of evidence that the events of the Book of Mormon never happened. But, I hold my tongue. Why? Well, they don't push it on me. They don't even express their "concern" anymore. They're politically and socially openminded. They're satisfied that I'm a good person. And I think they're decent people too. They happen to believe in a piece of fiction. They give 10% of their income to the church, which I could say is foolish, but they also benefit: their children play sports for free at the church, they're able to purchase deeply discounted food from church stores, etc. The Mormon church has its hand in politics and I don't like that. But I could go on and on...

I agree with what's been said about it being critical that she refer anyone with a serious illness to a licensed medical professional, including anyone who thinks they might be seriously mentally disturbed.

At the very least you could have a conversation with her about her intake protocols, the fact that she's not legally allowed to diagnose, prescribe, or treat, and -- in reference to that last part -- how she plans to advertise or describe what she is providing as a service. As far as I know, there's no law against charging another person to help them relax.

Depending on how you approach her, I don't think she should feel threatened or unsupported by that conversation. You would be supporting her, by reminding her what she can and cannot legally represent herself as being able to do.
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
Again, show me a master/preacher/cosmic messiah who dropped their woo.

I'm well aware that all manner of people come to their senses about woo every day. I was an ardent believer in ghosts myself until I was clued in to vivid/waking dreams and never looked back.

If you are leading/teaching woo, rather than just participating, you are either desperate/mentally ill, in which case no amount of evidence will penetrate, or you know it's crap but are bilking people. I feel no need to use kid gloves on either.

This is not someone telling their friends to go see Madame Zelda the fortune teller, this is someone who spend 2 years, and I assume a lot of money, learning to do new age faith healing. She may be a lovely woman in every other aspect, but her woo will be impervious to all logic.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see"
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Uh, pardon me.
I'm someone who devoted a lot of time and money into "energy healing" including Reiki of which I did master level training.
I never used it to bilk people or tell them they didn't need proper medical attention.
I quit it because of the woo-woo baggage, the unsubstantiated claims, the money racket associated with Reiki, and the feedback I got from people that they felt their personal space was violated.
When I was a believer in the efficacy of energy balancing, I was not mentally ill, just a bit deluded, as my species tends to get with many different kinds of beliefs.

But of course I wasn't a big name faith healer. And it is indeed rare that those who have made a public career of it are able to let go of the show.
Also I wasn't a "Master" in the sense of having years of practice and learning.
Mostly these days, "master" in Reiki, simply means one has been initiated into the use of the master Reiki symbols.
So. it's not that unusual for a Reiki "master" to at some point for varying reasons just drop the stuff.

When I encounter a massage therapist who uses Reiki in her practice, I don't level the whole huckster accusation at her. Instead I talk about what it is and what it isn't. And the placebo effect. relaxation response, and how it can temporarily relieve some symptoms but is not a cure.

But of course there are people exactly as you describe.
I have an xgf who is challenged that way in both mind and character.
She took offense at me for no longer believing energy healing was the true path. And then the "fairies" told her to break up with me.

Yeah, I thought I had a special healing power.
I was merely good at relaxing frontal cortexs, so to speak.
I could have been Rasputin, but I had a conscience.
 
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bumlet5 said:
Like I said, I don't care if she believes she can do it in her own mind, regardless of the evidence or lack thereof. I will be a friend and be supportive of her personal beliefs, so long as she understands my stance on it. Its when she starts using that belief to exploit people out of their money that I begin to have an issue with it.
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So you've discovered that you can't have your cake and eat it, too.

How can you "support her beliefs" and then be surprised when she acts as if what she believes to be true was actually .. .well ... true?
 
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