Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[bigjelmapro]

no but against the Palestinain people.
and with a blockade that doesnt really look like it.

Choose now, is it Hamas or the Palestinian people since you keep making up a new defense here. Hamas is in charge of Gaza. The blockade is against Hamas. Humanitarian aid does go in, does it not?

 

[DC]

Choose now, is it Hamas or the Palestinian people since you keep making up a new defense here. Hamas is in charge of Gaza. The blockade is against Hamas. Humanitarian aid does go in, does it not?

can Palestinains get Cement if they want to fix their lousy houses?
how long have they to wait until Israel OK's their project?
is it as easy for them as it is for Israel to build illegal settlements?

 

[bigjelmapro]

No more astounding than the logic that says Israel can't be guilty of war crimes because it's not at war

Who made this statement? Not me. If the investigations into this matter produce such results, then so be it.

So a state of armed conflict, does it or does it not exist between Israel and Hamas? Or who was Operation cast lead against? PLO? Hezbollah? I'm pretty sure it was Hamas.

 

[DC]

Who made this statement? Not me. If the investigations into this matter produce such results, then so be it.

So a state of armed conflict, does it or does it not exist between Israel and Hamas? Or who was Operation cast lead against? PLO? Hezbollah? I'm pretty sure it was Hamas.

does Hamas then have the same rights? like errecting a blockade againt Israel?

 

[PhantomWolf]

when it is legal for Israel to block the Palestinian ports, because they are at war with Hamas. then it is legal for Hamas to do the same with Israel, as they are at war with them.

When ISraelis board an aid convoy, and the people on the ship ressist that. there is outrage how they dare to resist the legal blockade.

but when Hamas would do the same with an Israeli aidconvoy it is sems you belive they have a right to resist Hamas.

If Hamas boarded an Israeli ship then it would be one beligerant boarding the vessel of another, and as such since they are at war, each is fair game to the other.

In this case it was a beligerant boarding a neutral vessel. By attacking the boarders, the crew then dropped their pretence of neutrality and became beligerants in the conflict. Had they not, they would have had to be treated as neutrals. If you are a neutral, you don't pick a side and attack the other without expecting the consequences of your actions.

 

[bigjelmapro]

can Palestinains get Cement if they want to fix their lousy houses?
how long have they to wait until Israel OK's their project?
is it as easy for them as it is for Israel to build illegal settlements?

30 tons of building material to enter Gaza

In response to a special request by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Israel allowed some 30 tons of building material into the Gaza Strip last Thursday to help rebuild a hospital damaged in the fighting there in 2009.

Israel has been extremely reluctant to let concrete and building materials into the region since the end of Operation Cast Lead in January 2009 because of the concern it would be diverted by Hamas to rebuild factories manufacturing Kassam rockets.

So a danger exists but materials are still delivered despite this threat, ie:

Increased humanitarian aid to Gaza after IDF operation

November (2009) summary:

Contrary to persistent reports of a "siege" on the Gaza Strip, there is considerable movement of goods and people between Israel and Gaza. In November:

The amount of merchandise entering the Gaza Strip increased - over 64,000 tons (89% from the private sector and only 11% from the international community) of food, medicines, hygiene products, clothing, agricultural supplies, and cement.

 

[DC]

If Hamas boarded an Israeli ship then it would be one beligerant boarding the vessel of another, and as such since they are at war, each is fair game to the other.

In this case it was a beligerant boarding a neutral vessel. By attacking the boarders, the crew then dropped their pretence of neutrality and became beligerants in the conflict. Had they not, they would have had to be treated as neutrals. If you are a neutral, you don't pick a side and attack the other without expecting the consequences of your actions.

ok lets take a Spanish aidconvoy.
Hamas is boarding it to search for goods Hamas imposed a ban on Israel.
you would expect the spanish activists on the vessel to not ressist?

thats fine.

 

[bigjelmapro]

does Hamas then have the same rights? like errecting a blockade againt Israel?

And what would they be blockading exactly? Mind you, this blockade would not exist if it weren't for Hamas's actions in firing mortars and missiles into Israel. Prior to this point, there was active bi-lateral trade and no IDF incursions into Gaza. That was the lull between the 2005 unilateral pullout and the end of the hudna by Hamas.

I'm sure you can start a profession defending the actions of Hamas, the Taliban, Tamil Tigers, etc. providing rights to terrorist organizations....good luck

 

[DC]

30 tons of building material to enter Gaza

So a danger exists but materials are still delivered despite this threat, ie:

Increased humanitarian aid to Gaza after IDF operation

30 ton's builds how many houses again?

 

[DC]

And what would they be blockading exactly? Mind you, this blockade would not exist if it weren't for Hamas's actions in firing mortars and missiles into Israel. Prior to this point, there was active bi-lateral trade and no IDF incursions into Gaza. That was the lull between the 2005 unilateral pullout and the end of the hudna by Hamas.

I'm sure you can start a profession defending the actions of Hamas, the Taliban, Tamil Tigers, etc. providing rights to terrorist organizations....good luck

remember that hypothetical Hamas blockade would not exist if there were no illegal settlements on their land.

why do you have rights but not your enemy?

what would they block? deliveris of missiles, choppers, nuclear submarines......

 

[bigjelmapro]

30 ton's builds how many houses again?

And you missed the other link? Convenience of omission I see again.

You can at any point make an argument that doesn't look like swiss cheese....

 

[PhantomWolf]

ok lets take a Spanish aidconvoy.
Hamas is boarding it to search for goods Hamas imposed a ban on Israel.
you would expect the spanish activists on the vessel to not ressist?

thats fine.

If Hamas could pull off a blockade and did so, and a Spainish frieghter tried to run it, I'd expect them to attempt to stop it too. If they did, then the Spainish crew shouldn't resist unless they wanted to get shot. However at the same time I'd expect Hamas to abide by International law once they had taken the ship and release both it and the crew if it was found that they were not carrying contraband, and the crew even if it was.

 

[DC]

And you missed the other link? Convenience of omission I see again.

You can at any point make an argument that doesn't look like swiss cheese....

30 ton is laughable for 1.5 million ppl.

how many tons of building materials does it take to errect one of those illegal settlements?

 

[bigjelmapro]

remember that hypothetical Hamas blockade would not exist if there were no illegal settlements on their land.

Take a gander at Hamas's charter why don't you. ALL of Israel is considered a settlement to them. Al-harab to be cleansed.

why do you have rights but not your enemy?

what would they block? deliveris of missiles, choppers, nuclear submarines......

Do you usually afford rights to an organization that is defined as a terrorist group? One who has a history of terrorist operations (with their lovely statements accepting it as a terrorist operation against the 'zionist entity').

Hell, why not give them an airport with a bunch of planes so they can wire them with explosives.

More swiss cheese?

 

[DC]

If Hamas could pull off a blockade and did so, and a Spainish frieghter tried to run it, I'd expect them to attempt to stop it too. If they did, then the Spainish crew shouldn't resist unless they wanted to get shot. However at the same time I'd expect Hamas to abide by International law once they had taken the ship and release both it and the crew if it was found that they were not carrying contraband, and the crew even if it was.

ok im fine with that thanks.

 

[PhantomWolf]

remember that hypothetical Hamas blockade would not exist if there were no illegal settlements on their land.

why do you have rights but not your enemy?

what would they block? deliveris of missiles, choppers, nuclear submarines......

Israel uses Diesel powered ones.

 

[DC]

Take a gander at Hamas's charter why don't you. ALL of Israel is considered a settlement to them. Al-harab to be cleansed.


Do you usually afford rights to an organization that is defined as a terrorist group? One who has a history of terrorist operations (with their lovely statements accepting it as a terrorist operation against the 'zionist entity').

Hell, why not give them an airport with a bunch of planes so they can wire them with explosives.

More swiss cheese?

do you grant rights to an organisation that clones passports of its allies and use them to kill someone they dislike without a trial or so?

 

[bigjelmapro]

30 ton is laughable for 1.5 million ppl.

how many tons of building materials does it take to errect one of those illegal settlements?

Missed the other source then. 64,000 tons, and no requirement whatsoever that forces Israel to deliver goods that can be used for construction of weaponry.

Not going to take the settlement bait, no matter how many times you try to deflect.

 

[bigjelmapro]

do you grant rights to an organisation that clones passports of its allies and use them to kill someone they dislike without a trial or so?

Does the US do the same when they shoot hellfire missiles to kill 1 known terrorist?

You should become a terrorist defense lawyer, although you'll be a poor one at that.

Deflect and swiss....should change the nick to DS for good measure.

 

[DC]

Israel uses Diesel powered ones.

yes sorry, i meant Submarines armed with nukes.......