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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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Kopji said:
Well so far, the international news is that Israel attacked an unarmed protest in international waters, continued killing after a white flag had been raised, and generally massacred people who were trying to surrender.
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Wrong. See the footage above of what happened. Perhaps you can peddle this drivel on stormfront and rense, that is ofcourse if you're not disregarding the actual turn of events. I have yet to see this footage on the international media outlets. Its a bit damning against these self-proclaimed peace activists.

*edited since I read this a bit differently initially...
 
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Skeptic said:
To repeat, I can rob a gas station and claim I am Robin Hood. That hardly means the police are now not allowed to arrest me because the robbery is now "charity work". Similarly, blockade running is an act of war against the country imposing the blockade; calling it "humanitarian aid" doesn't change the situation.
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You are good person in support of Jews. But you must be careful to not give bad analogy like above as it weaken Jewish Cause.

We Jews had good result in preventing Palestinians from rebuilding Gaza. We must keep boot on their head.
 
fuelair said:
I dunno - possible use for building/reinforcing strongpoints maybe?
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Oh those whacky Palestinians - using cement to build with. Unless they find crates of explosives, guns, hand grenades etc., it is going to look bloody silly killing a load of people for bags of cement.

I suppose if that is all that is on the boats the line could be that the ships deliberately loaded innocent building materials to make the Israeli forces look bad. It was a twisted act of ordinary aid and therefore direct provocation resulting in deadly force.

Mentalism - everybody out there, whichever side, is crazy aren't they?
 
sophia8 said:
The news so far indicates that all the deaths were amongst people on board the flotilla, and that none of the Israeli forces were killed. The one serious gunshot injury to an Israeli was reportedly inflicted by somebody snatching his own gun and using it on him.
IMHO, that does not help the credibility of the Israelis' account. Of course, it could be that all the armed terrorists on board the boats were really bad shots.

And, surely, boarding a non-military, not-obviously-armed vessel by force in international waters counts as piracy?
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Most people who aren't trained are lousy shots. Worse if they are using autoweapons, trying to fire rapidly without time to properly aim, etc.:)
 
fuelair said:
As long as they aren't Isralis. cool. Trying to propaganda and carry/ship weapons and disobey lawful orders in Israeli waters should get your butt terminated.
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You support killing of non Jew in this incident of smuggle weapon on ship to Hamas. You are good person.
 
Captain.Sassy said:
Is Zach a troll or is he for real?
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No he isn't. Its been pretty well-established he's supporting another parrot here by posing as a stereotypical right-wing extremist, who coincidentally agrees with EJ and what every right-wing extremists refers to as Israel rather to be Palestine. Better to add him to ignore. Troll and poor one at that.
 
bigjelmapro said:
No he isn't. Its been pretty well-established he's supporting another parrot here by posing as a stereotypical right-wing extremist, who coincidentally agrees with EJ and what every right-wing extremists refers to as Israel rather to be Palestine. Better to add him to ignore. Troll and poor one at that.
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what I love is it appears to be an attempt to damage the pro-Israel side's credibility, but is so idiotic and patently transparent that it is from the pro-Palestinian side that surely it cannot fail to be anything but an own goal, in the world of whoever did it where 'guilty by association with a sock puppet' isn't a fallacy. Either that or it is just a gag - I think it is hilarious myself.
 
Nogbad said:
Oh those whacky Palestinians - using cement to build with. Unless they find crates of explosives, guns, hand grenades etc., it is going to look bloody silly killing a load of people for bags of cement.
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Thing is, the freedom fighters are telling us that cement is banned in Gaza, along with iron. This is not true, it's merely restricted, meaning you need to justify building with concrete rather than wood. The Israelis are worried about Gazans building bunkers and such.

Now if I know this, and I'm just some guy sitting here safely behind my computer screen, it only stands to reason that the freedomers would know this and would have avoided cement in favour of prefab wood materials if they were truly interested in helping out the people of Gaza.
 
Stout said:
Excellent video, you can even see the paintball guns the IDF soldiers were wielding in that one.

So the social justice activists were the first to employ lethal weapons, in the name of 'peace" ummm, OK now.
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Whatever it is he is wielding they back off smartish. Although the soldier beside him seems to be brandishing a small arms weapon. The crew do physically attack the soldiers but I don't see any of them with guns. It is more like a pub brawl. So what happens next that resulted in so many dead?
 
bigjelmapro said:
Wrong. See the footage above of what happened. Perhaps you can peddle this drivel on stormfront and rense, that is ofcourse if you're not disregarding the actual turn of events. I have yet to see this footage on the international media outlets. Its a bit damning against these self-proclaimed peace activists.

*edited since I read this a bit differently initially...
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Oh please stop with adhom nonsense about rense and stormfront. That is a lie and has no truth to it. If you want my respect it will not come from lying about me.

You can say I'm wrong but the news reports speak for themselves:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

...JERUSALEM - Israel's storming of a Gaza-bound aid flotilla set off a diplomatic furor, drawing criticism from friends and foes alike and straining ties with regional ally Turkey, which called off planned joint military exercises.

The United Nations Security Council called an emergency session for later on Monday following the killing of 10 of the mostly international activists aboard a six-ship convoy that tried to break Israel's blockade of Gaza.

Washington said it deeply regretted the loss of life and was examining the circumstances that led to the bloodshed while Turkey, Israel's strongest Muslim friend in the region, summoned the Jewish state's ambassador and said it would recall its own...
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And the top youtube videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenysNLAfc8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFEBbDkyrqQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSFwyWyVo74

You can cry and moan about how you are all so misunderstood, but figure it out people. Buy a clue.

If the excuse is that people on the ships had knives trying to defend themselves against the commandos - well that is pretty lame. There are things like rubber bullets highly effective against such threats.

And you are boarding a ship.

This was not the first flotilla. Israel should have much experience with these by now. This was reckless and will not help Israel.
 
bigjelmapro said:
There's no flaw. If the IDF suspects anything to be on board that can be used to Hamas's advantage (material-wise), they are able to search the ship and detain those aboard it.

Karine-A is the prime example how this naval blockade has been effective.
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You fail to understand what effective means in this context.

This blockade isn't primarily dealing with an economic blockade, but one of materials entering Gaza, from weaponry to dual-use items which can be converted to weapons. Unless you can counter how this blockade is not effective, this application to a WWII standard is irrelevant.
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Effective is no longer the standard. That was rather the point. The legality or otherwise of blockades is now a UN matter. Thus the claim that the blockade is de jure legal and thus israels actions are fine doesn't fly.

You can argue that it is legitimate militry activity but that is a seperate argument.
 
Stout said:
Thing is, the freedom fighters are telling us that cement is banned in Gaza, along with iron. This is not true, it's merely restricted, meaning you need to justify building with concrete rather than wood. The Israelis are worried about Gazans building bunkers and such.

Now if I know this, and I'm just some guy sitting here safely behind my computer screen, it only stands to reason that the freedomers would know this and would have avoided cement in favour of prefab wood materials if they were truly interested in helping out the people of Gaza.
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So much could be duel use though - where does it stop? Building homes from concrete in that climate is preferable to wood. It seems to be the construction material of choice in the Med.
 
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Nogbad said:
So what happens next that resulted in so many dead?
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That's the question. While I'm no fan of reported IDF conduct in the past, you could make the case that firing live ammunition if you were being beaten with sticks and bars could be a legitimate use of force. What might be important here is whether they continued shooting after the protesters had stopped the attack or not, and if they did anything to precipitate the mob attack (other than landing on the boat).

Of course whatever the case the optics of this whole thing are piss-poor. For both sides, mind you.
 
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