Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[geni]

what? by supporting Israel's right to enforce a blockade? it has every right under international law.

Wrong. Under international law it has the right to enforce a legal blockade. The legality of any given blockade is hard to establish. So "every right" is going a bit far.

they had reasonable suspicions that these ships were trying to smuggle in weapons or explosives. The RN and USN do it all the time when they seize drugs ships.

Smuggling and blockade enforcement are seperate issues under maritine law. Try and be consistent ja?

 

[DC]

Put it yuo you this way. If i was driving my car across the border and the police wanted to inspect my car, if i tried to hit them, they'd have every right to beat the living daylights out of and arrest me.

ah and here i thought the outrage was about the killed people and not about the arresting........

 

[geni]

Put it yuo you this way. If i was driving my car across the border and the police wanted to inspect my car, if i tried to hit them, they'd have every right to beat the living daylights out of and arrest me.

Not under US law. There are limits on the amount of force they could legaly use and those are unlikely to reach the level of shooting you.

 

[Skeptic]

Wot? Like illegally boarding

A blockade-running flotilla is hardly "illegal" to board to enforce the blockade.

a vessel on the high seas and killing up to 20 people?

That's what happens when those on board attack the boarding party. The other five ships, where there was no resistance and the soldiers didn't fight back, had no injuries.

Again, I repeat: first you run a blockade-running operation, and are SHOCKED that those enforcing the blockade stop you? First you resist the boarding party violently and then are SHOCKED they shoot back?

Again, may I inquire what, exactly, you expected?

Apart from Israelies rolling over in tears saying, "Oh, dear human rights protector, go ahead, supply Hamas with stuff! We have sinned, but now we see the light!"?

 

[Thunder]

A blockade-running flotilla is hardly "illegal" to board to enforce the blockade.

and what if the blockade..is illegal?

is it illegal to violate an illegal blockade?

 

[Skeptic]

Shayetet 13 are a commando unit. Trained to go in hard a violently. A good choice when dealing with say iranian naval units and sort of okey for hostage rescue but a really bad choice when dealing with an entirely civilian crew with complicated friend/foe issues. There is a reason that in the US such matters would be delt with by the costguard rather than say delta force.

Sorry to stop your game of armchair admiral, but I just wondered if you even know what the word "shayetet" means in Hebrew.

 

[bit_pattern]

How can you "illegally" run a blockade while still in international waters?


And what did I expect? Maybe for Israel to act with some kind of restraint, not to send in hardcore commando units for what it's spin doctors were presenting saw "police action". I mean, ****, that's just off the top of my head, will get back to you with more tomorrow after a good nights sleep (is past midnight here).

 

[Mycroft]

that you directly belive the IDF claims without any evidence at all doesnt surprise me in the least.

Having followed the story ahead of time I read the IDF plans were to send the "activists" back to their home countries and deliver whatever supplies they had to the UN relief agency in Gaza. I think it's reasonable to assume any deviation from that plan was the result of unforeseen circumstances.

I did find this clip. Watching it, it seems at least some of these "activists" planned to martyr themselves.

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2489.htm

 

[Skeptic]

No. They attacked vessels in international waters that were carrying aid....

...to the group Israel is at war with.

I suppose that you consider all attacks on shipping by the US navy during, say, WWII were acts of piracy?

 

[Skeptic]

I did find this clip. Watching it, it seems at least some of these "activists" planned to martyr themselves.

Well, they seem to have succeeded.

 

[bit_pattern]

Sorry to stop your game of armchair admiral, but I just wondered if you even know what the word "shayetet" means in Hebrew.

LMAO! Yeah, and the Special Air Service only fly "special" planes, like acrobatic aircraft and triplane's, while the Navy Seals are really dolphin trainers! I mean, look at what their names mean in English!

Oh, the depths apologists will sink to!

 

[Skeptic]

The argument here is, "why didn't they arrest them instead of shooting them"? They DID just that on the other boats that did not attack the boarding party. Then one boat where there are casualties is the one boat whose residents attacked the boarding party. Well? What did you expect?

 

[DC]

The argument here is, "why didn't they arrest them instead of shooting them"? They DID just that on the other boats that did not attack the boarding party. Then one boat where there are casualties is the one boat whose residents attacked the boarding party. Well? What did you expect?

well what did the IDF expect?

 

[Skeptic]

LMAO! Yeah, and the Special Air Service only fly "special" planes, like acrobatic aircraft and triplane's, while the Navy Seals are really dolphin trainers! I mean, look at what their names mean in English!

Oh, the depths apologists will sink to!

Okay, what on earth are you talking about -- except for the fact that you obviously don't know what "shayetet" means, either?

I didn't say anything at all about what it can or cannot do. I was just wondering if he even knows what the name of the unit means, since he is apparently such a huge expert about it and knows its capacities and purpose...

 

[geni]

Sorry to stop your game of armchair admiral, but I just wondered if you even know what the word "shayetet" means in Hebrew.

Err nothing hebrew uses a different character set שייטת aparently comes out as Flotilla.

Eh hows this for irony the "Free Gaza Movement" were trying to sail from Cyprus.

 

[Mycroft]

its not an ambush when you are in international waters, and they board YOUR ship.

An ambush is any time one force uses concealment and/or surprise to gain advantage in attacking an enemy. Where it is, when it is, who the forces are, legal status etc. are all irrelevant to the definition of this word.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Not under US law. There are limits on the amount of force they could legaly use and those are unlikely to reach the level of shooting you.

well im british actually. But my point still stands, the police can still beat you up if you resist arrest.

 

[DreadNiK]

well im british actually. But my point still stands, the police can still beat you up if you resist arrest.

and transpose your example so the 'policeman' is climbing down a rope from a helicopter onto a boat in the middle of the sea and the 'arrest' is 'resisted' by multiple people with dangerous weapons - assuming that is what happened - and I'd say the level of force permitted in self-defence gets quite high.

I'm thinking the issue of the legality of the boarding needs to be separated somewhat from the question of what actually happening during the fatal boarding and whether the response was proportionate.

 

[Eddie Dane]

It's a good PR campaign on the part of the activists IMHO.

If you get a eighty-year old nun to attack a police officer with a potato knife, the headline will read: 'Cop tazers 80-year old nun!'
The next paragraph will mention that this old lady was wielding a very puny weapon and this is contracted with the fact that her opponent was a police officer, and male.

But it is the emotions that stick. The weakness of the victims, the strength of the attackers. never mind that the attackers are not allowed to use this strength in the eyes of the public.

Ironically, the Zionists used a similar PR tactic against the British.
Confronted with ships full of Holocaust survivors trying to get to Palestine, the British were faced with the choice between breaking with their own policies or looking like the worst kind of bully.

 

[Skeptic]

The news so far indicates that all the deaths were amongst people on board the flotilla, and that none of the Israeli forces were killed.

Shame! Can't those Jews be considerate and kill a few of their own whenever there is a fight, when they see there aren't enough casualties on their side to balance the picture?

The one serious gunshot injury to an Israeli was reportedly inflicted by somebody snatching his own gun and using it on him.

The damn soldier's fault, then.