Anti-English discrimination in Quebec

[Rasmus]

Germans are perfectly free to send their children to english speaking schools if they so wish.

There is hardly a market for that sort of thing, and only a few international schools - private and expensive - cater to it, but you can send your children there.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

I live in the Montreal area and live with my parents. I'm currently having a hard time finding a job due to my lack of French and this province is notorious throughout Canada for its intolerant treatment towards Anglophones. Now, one might say "just learn French you tard", but it's more than just that. I'm a Canadian citizen, and as such I should have my rights as an English speaker to have my rights in Quebec.

Instead of seeing differences, focus on what you have in common with the Québécois. Namely your mutual inability to speak French.

 

[Architect]

Nitpick: you can't immigrate from the same country, you can only migrate.

And what makes you think your culture is or should be stuck in some time period? Culture is continually adapting and changing. And there's far more to it than a language.

Strawman: at no point did I indicate that I anticipated Gaelic culture should not change or adapt; rather, I objected to displacement of said culture from those of another through, for example, the incommer's dogged determination (on the whole) to use English.

And language is a cornerstone of culture.

 

[Canadian712]

4%?!? Care to show your work? 22.7% of the entire population are French Canadians

Sorry, I meant to say outside Quebec it is 4%.

The Supreme Court of Canada in 2005 ruled that section 73 of the Charter of the French Language, pertaining to language of instruction in Quebec, is constitutional.

But it did suggest flexibility to newcomers, which is in itself a partial victory for language rights. English or French minorities of a province are allowed to freely send their child to the school of that particular language of instruction under section 23(1) of the Constitution.

I doubt that many Quebecois are still trapping beaver and other game... which was pretty much their original culture.

They were also the first ones to call themselves "Canadiens".

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

They were also the first ones to call themselves "Canadiens".

Heh, they spelled it wrong.

They definitely need more English lessons.

 

[Canadian712]

By the way, I'd like to make a formal apology for calling most Quebec politicians "racists". I was just angry when writing that posts. However, you do get your occasional Canada hater, Anglo-basher editors from French language journals such as Le Devoir and Le Quebecois (not that this doesn't exist in the English media as well, but just saying.....), as well as language militants such as the RRQ.

 

[Pardalis]

As far as I can tell this is about preserving language, not culture.

I doubt that many Quebecois are still trapping beaver and other game... which was pretty much their original culture.

You guys have no idea what "culture" means.

Thanks for yet another stereotype.

Want me to have a go at American stereotypes?

 

[Pardalis]

No, just the government. Separatists usually warp its history for their own agendas.

Learn a little bit about our history, and this present government isn't a separatist one, just so you know.

BTW, did you suddenly forget how to use the quote function?

What the heck you talking about? Francophones control all aspect of Quebec politics and they get a pretty good representation in Ottawa, which is quite extraordinary considering French Canadians only make up 4% of the entire population. Not that it's a bad thing, but just saying....

You got your numbers wrong.

Damn right I'm frustrated. When the government starts dictating which schools I have to go to

Aren't you supposed to be already in college. You still want to pretend you're 18?

You don't see the English provinces imposing laws on the Francophones outside Quebec to protect the English culture.

English doesn't need protecting.

 

[Pardalis]

Instead of seeing differences, focus on what you have in common with the Québécois. Namely your mutual inability to speak French.

Et toi, ton français, il est comment? Tu le parles parfaitement j'imagine?

 

[lomiller]

It's about influencing the direction a culture takes as it evolves; preserving a difference, an identity, not preserving a time-period.

When did it become a good idea for government to control how culture evolves?

When did difference for the sake of difference become a good idea?

 

[lomiller]

As far as I can tell this is about preserving language, not culture.

I doubt that many Quebecois are still trapping beaver and other game... which was pretty much their original culture.

The argument being presented is that preserving language is necessary for the sake of preserving culture.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Et toi, ton français, il est comment? Tu le parles parfaitement j'imagine?

I speak French as well as any school boy who had it pounded in to his skull for 7 years of schooling, which is to say barely any at all.

The French are quite proficient in the language though, and they say they can't understand you guys

You're really trying to defend Quebecois culture, the French culture boat has sailed, perhaps while drinking wine and languidly smoking a cigarette.

 

[Canadian712]

You got your numbers wrong.

If you include Quebec, it's about 22%. Outside Quebec, it's only about 4 to 5%.

Learn a little bit about our history, and this present government isn't a separatist one, just so you know.

Irrelevant, I never implied that they were and I know Quebec history quite well. Doesn't support separatists' point of view IMO.

English doesn't need protecting.

It does in Quebec(anglo population has dropped steadily since the 1970s, although it's stable in Montreal), but that's besides the point. The point I was trying to make is that Francophones outside Quebec would probably be very angry if they weren't able to send their kids to local French schools.

 

[Pardalis]

If you include Quebec, it's about 22%. Outside Quebec, it's only about 4 to 5%.

Why did you exclude Québec? You said:

What the heck you talking about? Francophones control all aspect of Quebec politics and they get a pretty good representation in Ottawa, which is quite extraordinary considering French Canadians only make up 4% of the entire population.

So shouldn't you include Québec in the "entire population"?

Irrelevant, I never implied that they were

Yes you did, again, you said:

No, just the government. Separatists usually warp its history for their own agendas.

 

[Canadian712]

Yes you did, again, you said:

I meant to imply the government AND the separatists, who are the main opposition. My bad

So shouldn't you include Québec in the "entire population"?

If you looked at my later posts, I mentioned I forgot to exclude Quebec in the "entire population" and i did so to prove my point that Francophones get lots of representation in Ottawa, considering that Francophones make up about 5% of the population in English Canada.

 

[Pardalis]

i did so to prove my point that Francophones get lots of representation in Ottawa, considering that Francophones make up about 5% of the population in English Canada.

Ottawa is not the capital of English Canada, it's the capital of Canada, which includes, allegedly, the province of Québec.

You do not have a point.

ETA: so now it's not 4% but 5%? Did 300000 people suddenly start to speak French since the last time you posted?

 

[Pardalis]

BTW, why do you not post in other sections of the forum? Why did you choose the JREF, an American site to post your babblings about Québec?

Wouldn't a Canadian board about Canadian politics be more appropriate for you? I doubt many people here care about this topic.

 

[Architect]

With respect, mate, and bearing in mind that I'mo on your side vis-a-vis French in Quebec, your comment about where he posted seems like bollocks. THis is the "Non US Politics" section of a site where a sizeable proportion of us aren't American.

 

[fitzgibbon]

If Jacques Parizeau's "money and the ethnic vote" is not racist I don't know what is. There's also the anti-Semitic comment by PQ candidate Yves Michaud, and was also condemned by Lucien Bouchard. Jean Charest has made it clear on many occasions that he's no friend of the anglos. Just a few examples.

Just out of curiousity, do you not think the intemperate tone of your posts is precisely the sort of ill-tempered slanging that gives comfort to les Séperatistes? You're coming off like progeny of the Belleville flag-stompers FFS. The PQ would salivate over having a few dozen stick-in-the-mud carpers like you to point to showing just how les Québecois will never be able to work within Confederation because TROC (The Rest of Canada) just doesn't get it.

The sad thing is that the vast majority of Canadians DO get it and are generally sanguine about the political accommodation that goes with the turf. What I don't get is how you can grow up in a bilingual province and suck at speaking French? Unless this was a conscious decision on your part or else you're older than you claim. I'm decades out of school and I still retain the basics of the French that was taught me in the teeming faux-Québecois suburb that is Mississauga. It isn't difficult. Nobody's going to mistake me for a francophone but I at least have made the small effort required to make myself understood whether it's in Québec City or in Paris.

Sounds like the language issue is a canard with you.

 

[fitzgibbon]

When did it become a good idea for government to control how culture evolves?

When did difference for the sake of difference become a good idea?

Because business shoots for the lowest common denominator, the cheapest source. And the various governments are just making sure the platform to maintain the culture is there, not to be swamped by a continual tide of cheap cultural imports. Nobody said anything about directing its evolution, just that it be able to keep its head above water.

Québec has a vibrant culture that TROC would do well to emulate due at least in part to the various language laws. They recognise inherently just how easily a culture is subsumed and took steps to preserve theirs. Oh that anglos would pay such attention as opposed to tuning-in to catch the series finale of "Lost" or "The Young and Restless" or whatever U.S. import is on.