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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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HumanityBlues said:
I never said they didn't celebrate All Saints Day. Do a little digging. They celebrate Halloween in Perugia.
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Fine, be pedantic :p


Regardless, Nov 1st is celebrated - therefore, the argument presented by Bruce, that Curatolo's mentioning of masks/costumes in his testimony is inconsistent with the night of the murder, is false.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
It is very clear that Toto had his days confused. Fulcanelli tries to hide this fact. He knows as well as Fine that Toto is not credible.

Fine jumps in about the masks. It is clear that Fulcanelli is claiming that Toto never talked about costumes, confusing the day. If Fulcanelli would like to clarify his position that would be great.
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I suggest you read Massei's evaluation of his testimony, which repeats what Curatolo actually said as well as states clearly the reasons why Curatolo's testimony is deemed accurate.

But, for reasons that are not quite clear to me, you appear to be avoiding the content of Massei's Report like the plague, instead preferring to run to newspaper reports from before the trial.
 
By the way, just to address the recent nonsense regarding the footprints:

1) The so-called 'cleaning' of Rudy's prints was the forensic police actually take up material for DNA testing.

2) All of the prints were recorded and their positions noted. There are no 'missing' Rudy prints (as in, prints vanished by the forensic police).

Therefore, if there are no prints from Rudy showing that he stopped to turn and lock the door, this is because they were never there to begin with, not because they were 'secretly' removed by the police.
 
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HumanityBlues said:
Richard Owen says they celebrate the Day of the Dead on November 2nd btw: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22332240/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/2/

This also lists Day of the Dead in Perugia as November 2: http://www.timegenie.com/city.time/itpeg

Maybe it technically starts at sundown...?
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Well, when Amanda phoned Filomena on the 2nd, Filomena was actually attending the Fair of the Dead at the time.

In truth, the whole holiday (which covers several days) is actually in celebration of the Day of the Dead 'Il Giorno dei Morti'. It's also been extended further by foreign students bringing over the celebration of Halloween. So, while the calendar may be day specific, culturally it's more a 'period' of time.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Well, when Amanda phoned Filomena on the 2nd, Filomena was actually attending the Fair of the Dead at the time.

In truth, the whole holiday (which covers several days) is actually in celebration of the Day of the Dead 'Il Giorno dei Morti'. It's also been extended further by foreign students bringing over the celebration of Halloween. So, while the calendar may be day specific, culturally it's more a 'period' of time.
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You said the Day of the Dead was November 1st.
 
HumanityBlues said:
You said the Day of the Dead was November 1st.
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And perhaps you are just trying to find fault for the sake of it? Quite ironic for the one who loves to label people trolls. But then, Knox supporters have always had an issue with projecting.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
It is very clear that Toto had his days confused. Fulcanelli tries to hide this fact. He knows as well as Fine that Toto is not credible.

Fine jumps in about the masks. It is clear that Fulcanelli is claiming that Toto never talked about costumes, confusing the day. If Fulcanelli would like to clarify his position that would be great.
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Toto didn't hear Nara's scream either and he was outside, which always seemed like a contradiction of the two witnesses.
 
JREF2010 said:
Toto didn't hear Nara's scream either and he was outside, which always seemed like a contradiction of the two witnesses.
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Nor did any of the costumed persons in the Plaza, or at least, none that I've seen come forward.

And that's before we discuss acoustics and that the plaza was somewhat busy with people so there would have been lots of background noise. If a tree falls in a forest and you can't hear it over other people's conversations, are you going to pay attention to the tree? ;)

ETA: It's very possible that Curatolo heard the scream but didn't pay it any attention due to the revelers in the plaza. I'm honestly not sure that I would have paid it any attention that night either (rather, assumed it to be some college girl in the plaza having a good time and/or being chased and/or teased by a friend/bf, etc).
 
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Fulcanelli said:
By the way, just to address the recent nonsense regarding the footprints:

1) The so-called 'cleaning' of Rudy's prints was the forensic police actually take up material for DNA testing.

2) All of the prints were recorded and their positions noted. There are no 'missing' Rudy prints (as in, prints vanished by the forensic police).

Therefore, if there are no prints from Rudy showing that he stopped to turn and lock the door, this is because they were never there to begin with, not because they were 'secretly' removed by the police.
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If you had the high resolution photograph of the shoe print in the hall you would know that Rudy did not need to turn around. Locking the door was a natural motion from where he was standing.
 
Fulcanelli said:
And it's wrong. Curatolo made no mention of masks, Halloween or otherwise in his testimony. Your primary source should be the testimony he gave on the stand and Massei's Report where he addresses Curatolo's testimony.
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My primary source is the actual court documents. My sources are solid. You are wrong.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
If you had the high resolution photograph of the shoe print in the hall you would know that Rudy did not need to turn around. Locking the door was a natural motion from where he was standing.
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Bruce,

You can keep telling it like it's a gospel truth... that still doesn't make it so.

I've tried it myself a couple of times and there is very little natural about it. I'm not saying it can't be done... but it's a stretch to claim that it is a natural motion.

Amazer
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Bruce, go back and read your reply to Fulcanelli again.
Italy doesn't celebrate Halloween. So the mask wearing would not have been on Oct 31st as you assert.

Given Curatolo's testimony does, in fact, include references to people in costumes, I think you're both a bit wrong on this one.

Fulcanelli - costumes were mentioned by Curatolo, whether masks were specifically mentioned or not
Bruce - costumes mean it was Nov 1st or 2nd, not Oct 31st (not sure if Nov 2nd is celebrated the same as Nov 1st, regardless, the mentioning of costumes does not cast this testimony into the "errant" category)


ETA: Fulcanelli, can you post the actual transcript of Curatolo's testimony? (Translated and untranslated would be a plus)
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I believe the last photo taken of Meredith before she was murdered shows her dressed up for Halloween. Halloween is celebrated in Italy.
 
Amazer said:
Bruce,

You can keep telling it like it's a gospel truth... that still doesn't make it so.

I've tried it myself a couple of times and there is very little natural about it. I'm not saying it can't be done... but it's a stretch to claim that it is a natural motion.

Amazer
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Please explain what motion you are trying.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
I believe the last photo taken of Meredith before she was murdered shows her dressed up for Halloween. Halloween is celebrated in Italy.
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Ahh, read the rest of the thread/post, Bruce.

Whether I was right or wrong about Halloween (I was, I suppose...), your argument is still invalid for the reason I've pointed out.

Thanks, and have a wonderful JREF day.
 
Kevin_Lowe said:
Since Mary commented on the issue of Stilicho's characterisation of Amanda's email as well, here's an excerpt containing the relevant passage, with the parts before and after included so as to show the context.

The text is provided as I found it here- I beg your pardon in advance for Amanda's English skills.

Judge for yourself whether Stilicho is slanting the facts to paint Amanda Knox in a bad light.
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She sent her idle musings about her "friend's" sexual proclivities to her spam list. I stand by that statement as I always have. Whether it paints Amanda in a bad light is really up to the individual to determine. If she hadn't spammed her email list with it then there would be no argument.

Mary's objection is not to the fact that she speculated about Meredith's sexual habits but Mary's own opinion that Amanda was just relating a story about what she'd spoken about with the police. The context shows quite a different reason. Amanda broke a demand for confidentiality from the police just to share this juicy tidbit about Meredith's sex life:

...i was strictly told not to speak about this...

Of all the things she could break confidentiality about, Amanda chose the most disparaging thing that she could. Just think about receiving an email where someone speculated about your sister, mother, or daughter and whether she might be into anal sex. Would that be something you'd expect to read from a good friend?

If so then we do indeed have very different world-views.
 
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