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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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capealadin said:
Umm, and although gym going and kick boxing Raff couldn,t break down the door, it was accomplished very easily.
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Not to mention Amanda going from pounding on the door and trying to climb out from the terrace to really not caring two hoots and lazily dialling this person and that person but never the police. Nerves of steel, that woman.
 
stilicho said:
To your FOA talking points:

1] You're describing what he actually did. He went out to dance and hopefully establish an alibi. In doing that, he proved himself to be slightly smarter than RS and AK, although he made the mistake of leaving them alone after they murdered Meredith.

2] Burning the cottage down would have been an even better way to cover his tracks. He wouldn't have known whether all the keys inside the house were identical because they weren't security locks. Although that type of lock is supposed to have 200 variations, there's nothing to suppose that the mechanism cannot be forced by a different key.

3] Your problem here is that RG is both brilliant and stupid at the same time. He did nothing to remove his handprints or footprints and didn't even quickly check to make sure he'd flushed the toilet. Yet he locked the door.

None of the evidence supports your conclusion. Rudy did not lock Meredith's door.
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Rudy did lock Meredith's door, and it was not to delay discovery. It was to prevent her from getting out of the room and calling for help. He took her cell phones for the same reason. That's why he threw them away instead of keeping them for his own use.

Meredith may have taken up to two hours to die from bleeding to death slowy. When Rudy left her, she was still alive. He would not have tried to help stanch the flow of her blood with towels if he thought she was dead.

When he left the cottage, he was in a panic-induced state of deep denial, wishfully thinking that everything would turn out okay if he behaved normally. It served his psychic purposes to believe Meredith would recover quickly from the attack, try and fail to get out of her room and wait until someone came in the morning to help her.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Well, the place the whole premise breaks down is the fact that the judges don't make their decisions based on what 'Mignini' says in court, but on what all the experts say...be they for the defence, victims or prosecution. Of course, Bruce and his chums are all about making this about Mignini...which is a total red herring. It has nothing to do with Mignini (neither the verdict not the motivations for it). In fact, where one to scan Massei's report...one would be hard pressed to find a single mention of Mignini in the actual text at all.
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This is an irrelevant argument. We have no idea whom the judges are listening to when they make their decisions. Claudia Matteini doesn't mention Mignini in her report, but it is obvious she is retelling the story of what Mignini thought had happened Paolo Micheli doesn't mention Mignini in Rudy's sentencing report, but he refers to the prosecution's theories and arguments.
 
Mary said:
"Rudy did lock Meredith's door, and it was not to delay discovery. It was to prevent her from getting out of the room and calling for help. He took her cell phones for the same reason. That's why he threw them away instead of keeping them for his own use."

Are you saying that if he'd kept the phones she would've been able to call for help?
 
stilicho said:
Common sense notwithstanding, the evidence tells us that they called other people before they phoned the police. This, in itself, is not terribly suspicious. But it is suspicious that they waited so long to call the Carabinieri after knowing Filomena's original reaction.

It takes both Amanda and Raffaele to be incredibly dull to have done that. According to her story, Amanda first found the break-in and the signs something was wrong. She dilly-dallied around, taking a shower alone in a house in which there had apparently been an intrusion, and in an area known to be frequented by druggies. Brave woman! Nerves of steel when she wants to.

Then, still according to her, she went to get Raffaele and he, too, saw nothing disturbing enough to spring into action. It stretches credibility to accept that both of them were that dull.

As for the bathmat print, I'm willing to accept that it was not sufficiently well-lit in the bathroom for either of them to notice it when they staged the scene. The version we have appears to have been photographed under bright light and possibly after a reagent had been applied to it so it stood out. They just didn't notice it during the cleanup.
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Amanda wasn't aware of the break-in until she came back to the cottage with Raffaele. As she said, when saw the blood in the bathroom, she didn't think the worst. When a college student lives in a house with several other people, all of whom have friends and acquaintances who come and go, it is normal not to jump to conclusions, but to wait and see if there is a rational explanation for unusual circumstances.

A lot of people are hesitant to call the police in general. I would think Amanda would defer to Raffaele in that regard, since it was his country. He did call his sister first to get advice, which shows he was reluctant to just out-and-out call the police, not because he was trying to cover anything up, but because he wanted to make sure the situation was serious enough before getting the police over there.
 
bucketoftea said:
Mary said:
"Rudy did lock Meredith's door, and it was not to delay discovery. It was to prevent her from getting out of the room and calling for help. He took her cell phones for the same reason. That's why he threw them away instead of keeping them for his own use."

Are you saying that if he'd kept the phones she would've been able to call for help?
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No. He could have taken the cell phones to keep or sell. In that case, he wouldn't have thrown them away. His object in taking the cell phones was not to keep them, but to prevent Meredith from using them.
 
Mary_H said:
When he left the cottage, he was in a panic-induced state of deep denial, wishfully thinking that everything would turn out okay if he behaved normally. It served his psychic purposes to believe Meredith would recover quickly from the attack, try and fail to get out of her room and wait until someone came in the morning to help her.
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He was certainly in a panic. He wasn't sufficiently psychic to know that AK and RS would stage a break-in in Filomena's room while he danced.
 
Mary_H said:
A lot of people are hesitant to call the police in general. I would think Amanda would defer to Raffaele in that regard, since it was his country. He did call his sister first to get advice, which shows he was reluctant to just out-and-out call the police, not because he was trying to cover anything up, but because he wanted to make sure the situation was serious enough before getting the police over there.
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They both sure had ice water in their veins that morning. Somehow they both lost that composure in the face of evidence of their decayed alibis placed in front of them by the police.

Or they simply were lying all along.
 
bucketoftea said:
We have no idea what the judges listen to? erm....all the evidence and arguments from both sides?
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My argument was against this claim of Fulcanelli's: "Well, the place the whole premise breaks down is the fact that the judges don't make their decisions based on what 'Mignini' says in court, but on what all the experts say...be they for the defence, victims or prosecution.

My point was that there is no way to make the claim that the judges don't make their decisions based on what Mignini says in court, because we don't know for sure what the judges are paying attention to when they make their decisions.
 
stilicho said:
He was certainly in a panic. He wasn't sufficiently psychic to know that AK and RS would stage a break-in in Filomena's room while he danced.
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Yes, he might have enjoyed his evening out more. ;)

Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "psychic." I meant "mental," as in, for the purposes of keeping his psyche at rest.

Your post reminds me of a picture someone sent me in an e-mail today. It shows a sign that reads, "Psychic Fair cancelled, due to unforeseen circumstances." :)
 
Some interesting questions posed by Barbie Nadeau:
1. Why did you and Raffaele Sollecito turn off your cell phones at the same time the night of November 1, 2007 and on again at the same time the next morning? You told the police that you and Raffaele slept late the morning of November 2, 2007, but phone records show that you both turned your phones back on very early that morning. How could that be?

2. Why were you bleeding? Your lawyers agree with the prosecution’s findings that at least one of the spots of Meredith’s blood found in the house where she was killed had your blood mixed with it. Your mother told me that you had your period. Your stepfather told others that your ear piercings were infected. Which was it?

3. Once you realized your mistake in blaming Patrick Lumumba for Meredith’s murder, why didn’t you tell the authorities? You told your mother that you felt bad about it, so why didn’t you alert an official so Patrick could be set free?

4. Why did you go with Raffaele to the police station on November 5? You were not called in for questioning. Did you realize at that time that you were both under suspicion?

Edited by LashL: 
Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not post lengthy tracts available elsewhere. Also, be sure to attribute quotes to their source.


I'd ask why she never contacted her friend's family after her murder.
Anyone else have any questions for Amanda?
 
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Meredith had over 40 wounds. She was also strangled. Rudi was the lone killer. Meredith had been tortured, but instead of one more fatal stab wound, which would have taken one second, he takes the phones, and takes time to lock the door. After undressing her and covering her with the duvet. And leaves Meredith alive, so that on the chance help arrives, she can tell who tried to kill her.
 
If it was just Rudi there, as you claim, he could have done the coup de grace in less time than it took to cut the bra. Which, btw, could have just been unsnapped. It would take someone inexperienced with girlfriends (Raffaele) and into rape and porn (Raffaele) to cut the bra.
 
Mary_H said:
My argument was against this claim of Fulcanelli's: "Well, the place the whole premise breaks down is the fact that the judges don't make their decisions based on what 'Mignini' says in court, but on what all the experts say...be they for the defence, victims or prosecution.

My point was that there is no way to make the claim that the judges don't make their decisions based on what Mignini says in court, because we don't know for sure what the judges are paying attention to when they make their decisions.
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Mary,

It would be more appropriate to state that you don't know how the judges weighed the evidence precisely till their report comes out. Although it's probably safe to say that the Judges found the evidence presented by the prosecution be more credible, hence the guilty verdict.

Amazer
 
capealadin said:
Meredith had over 40 wounds. She was also strangled. Rudi was the lone killer. Meredith had been tortured, but instead of one more fatal stab wound, which would have taken one second, he takes the phones, and takes time to lock the door. After undressing her and covering her with the duvet. And leaves Meredith alive, so that on the chance help arrives, she can tell who tried to kill her.
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Rudi wasn't thinking clearly; his strategy doesn't have to make sense. There is always the possibility that he thought he had disabled Meredith quickly enough that she hadn't gotten a good look at him and couldn't ID him.

You shouldn't think of the 40 wounds as having been inflicted deliberately. Meredith was struggling with someone who had a knife in his hand -- anything can happen. The "wounds" were not all cuts; some were bruises or abrasions.
 
Mary_H said:
Rudy did lock Meredith's door, and it was not to delay discovery. It was to prevent her from getting out of the room and calling for help. He took her cell phones for the same reason. That's why he threw them away instead of keeping them for his own use.

Meredith may have taken up to two hours to die from bleeding to death slowy. When Rudy left her, she was still alive. He would not have tried to help stanch the flow of her blood with towels if he thought she was dead.

When he left the cottage, he was in a panic-induced state of deep denial, wishfully thinking that everything would turn out okay if he behaved normally. It served his psychic purposes to believe Meredith would recover quickly from the attack, try and fail to get out of her room and wait until someone came in the morning to help her.
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And the reason that Rudy, who left with blood on his hands, didn't leave any blood on the cell phones is...?
 
Mary_H said:
Rudi wasn't thinking clearly; his strategy doesn't have to make sense. There is always the possibility that he thought he had disabled Meredith quickly enough that she hadn't gotten a good look at him and couldn't ID him.

You shouldn't think of the 40 wounds as having been inflicted deliberately. Meredith was struggling with someone who had a knife in his hand -- anything can happen. The "wounds" were not all cuts; some were bruises or abrasions.
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If he wasn't sure she could I.D. him, why attack her in the first place? Why not just run out the front door?
 
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