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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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HumanityBlues said:
It's just odd to me that he can't envision the scenario he was discussing EVER occurring, and yet thinks everybody on planet Earth is capable of murder.
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Um, I think you missed the point.

Stilicho claimed he didn't see how someone could go straight from "I was at my boyfriend's apartment" to "I was there when he murdered her" strictly from an interrogation - especially not when the questioning leading up to this has lasted 20-30mins (or so).

I believe just about anyone is capable of murder - whether it's premeditated or not is a different story. However, that doesn't conflict with my belief that a false confession due to harsh interrogative procedures doesn't jump from "I was with my bf" to "I was in the house while Man-X (who wasn't really involved at all) raped and then killed her".
 
HumanityBlues said:
No. But I also don't think that you are personally capable of murdering someone. I would hope you thought that of other people, but things you've said in the past indicate you think every average Joe could become depraved enough to murder someone on any given day.
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Ordinary people do murder other people though. It happens almost every day. If this were an uncommon occurrence then I'd agree with you.

I did a search on the income levels and occupations of murder convicts a while ago and posted it at the PMF. It runs the gamut--housewives, hit men, garbage collectors, business executives, kids, senior citizens, etc. It's not exhaustive but looking for a single key to who a murderer is before they commit murder is a fool's errand.
 
I'm curious if there is a single person on this forum that has been in an interrogation. Everyone seems to put themselves in Amanda Knox's shoes and state what "they would do". How the hell do you know? Stilicho says anyone is capable of murdering someone on any given day. Bobthedonkey thinks just about anyone is capable of murder. Yet, it's not possible for an innocent person to place herself at the murder scene and finger an innocent man?
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Um, I think you missed the point.

Stilicho claimed he didn't see how someone could go straight from "I was at my boyfriend's apartment" to "I was there when he murdered her" strictly from an interrogation - especially not when the questioning leading up to this has lasted 20-30mins (or so).
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Correct.

Even if the interrogation had lasted longer it doesn't make any sense.

Maybe if HB or LJ could provide an example of that having happened we could at least compare it to a real-life scenario.
 
stilicho said:
Ordinary people do murder other people though. It happens almost every day. If this were an uncommon occurrence then I'd agree with you.

I did a search on the income levels and occupations of murder convicts a while ago and posted it at the PMF. It runs the gamut--housewives, hit men, garbage collectors, business executives, kids, senior citizens, etc. It's not exhaustive but looking for a single key to who a murderer is before they commit murder is a fool's errand.
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Yes they have seemingly ordinary jobs, lives, families. But you have to be very depraved to intentionally kill someone. Income levels mean nothing.
 
HumanityBlues said:
I'm curious if there is a single person on this forum that has been in an interrogation. Everyone seems to put themselves in Amanda Knox's shoes and state what "they would do". How the hell do you know? Stilicho says anyone is capable of murdering someone on any given day. Bobthedonkey thinks just about anyone is capable of murder. Yet, it's not possible for an innocent person to place herself at the murder scene and finger an innocent man?
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Ahh, but I don't think this murder was more than an accident - a prank gone horribly wrong.

Like I said, I don't think most people could commit a pre-meditated murder on any given day. That doesn't mean accidents don't happen ;)


ETA: I think people are far more prone to lying than they are to murder. In this case, Amanda lied about Patrick. What makes you, therefore, believe she was telling the truth before that? Note that I'm not using the accusation of Patrick to support my belief that she lied about her innocence...just noting that she's not reliable in either direction, guilt or innocence.
 
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BobTheDonkey said:
Ahh, but I don't think this murder was more than an accident - a prank gone horribly wrong.

Like I said, I don't think most people could commit a pre-meditated murder on any given day. That doesn't mean accidents don't happen ;)
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Look at the crime scene photos. This wasn't a freaking accident. No one fell on a knife. Ya an accident. That's exactly what the crime scene looks like. One big giant accident......
 
HumanityBlues said:
I'm curious if there is a single person on this forum that has been in an interrogation. Everyone seems to put themselves in Amanda Knox's shoes and state what "they would do". How the hell do you know? Stilicho says anyone is capable of murdering someone on any given day. Bobthedonkey thinks just about anyone is capable of murder. Yet, it's not possible for an innocent person to place herself at the murder scene and finger an innocent man?
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Wait a minute, HB. I stated that I couldn't figure out an acceptable scenario and not that it was entirely impossible. We know Amanda loves to invent stories, that she loves to talk, that she enjoys writing. It's entirely possible that she habitually invents false stories all the time.

Now most of us wouldn't do that when talking to the police but both she and Raffaele did. Again, we're back to excusing both of them for deliberately lying in a murder investigation. I suppose it's entirely possible that a murder investigation is just one big joke to those two. Any examples of simple pranksters being sentenced to 25 years in prison for a murder they didn't commit?
 
HumanityBlues said:
Yes they have seemingly ordinary jobs, lives, families. But you have to be very depraved to intentionally kill someone. Income levels mean nothing.
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Disagree. It's an act of volition. It may be a depraved act but it doesn't mean you "are" depraved.
 
stilicho said:
Wait a minute, HB. I stated that I couldn't figure out an acceptable scenario and not that it was entirely impossible. We know Amanda loves to invent stories, that she loves to talk, that she enjoys writing. It's entirely possible that she habitually invents false stories all the time.

Now most of us wouldn't do that when talking to the police but both she and Raffaele did. Again, we're back to excusing both of them for deliberately lying in a murder investigation. I suppose it's entirely possible that a murder investigation is just one big joke to those two. Any examples of simple pranksters being sentenced to 25 years in prison for a murder they didn't commit?
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If you couldn't think of ANY scenario, then you weren't thinking very hard anyways. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but anyone can think of a scenario. If you could play devil's advocate for one minute it wouldn't be that hard, but I've never seen you ever do this without saying "this would mean that all the police would have to be corrupt, all the judges, and the prosecutors are in this giant conspiracy..."........
 
HumanityBlues said:
Look at the crime scene photos. This wasn't a freaking accident. No one fell on a knife. Ya an accident. That's exactly what the crime scene looks like. One big giant accident......
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I've posted it before, but here we go one more time.

Amanda wasn't intent on murdering Meredith. Maybe just having some "fun" at Meredith's expense. She (or one of the two guys) was holding the knife at Meredith's throat while Rudy was having his way, or it was a prank similar to the one Amanda was rumored to have pulled in Seattle. Whatever. At some point, Meredith slips, or whichever of the 3 are holding the knife gets mad, however it happened...I don't believe it was intended to be a murder when it first started.


Regardless, normal people go to prison everyday for murder. Most of them probably try lying to the Police about it as well. I see no difference between Amanda and them.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
I've posted it before, but here we go one more time.

Amanda wasn't intent on murdering Meredith. Maybe just having some "fun" at Meredith's expense. She (or one of the two guys) was holding the knife at Meredith's throat while Rudy was having his way, or it was a prank similar to the one Amanda was rumored to have pulled in Seattle. Whatever. At some point, Meredith slips, or whichever of the 3 are holding the knife gets mad, however it happened...I don't believe it was intended to be a murder when it first started.


Regardless, normal people go to prison everyday for murder. Most of them probably try lying to the Police about it as well. I see no difference between Amanda and them.
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Good to have your theory Bob. One big accident.:confused:

She just SLIPPED? Really? I mean really?! C'mon Bob. Seriously?
 
HumanityBlues said:
If you couldn't think of ANY scenario, then you weren't thinking very hard anyways. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but anyone can think of a scenario. If you could play devil's advocate for one minute it wouldn't be that hard, but I've never seen you ever do this without saying "this would mean that all the police would have to be corrupt, all the judges, and the prosecutors are in this giant conspiracy..."........
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Find an example then! This shouldn't be that hard. But you've read the false confession links provided here. They are not even close.
 
HumanityBlues said:
No, you definitely have to be pretty depraved and ****ed up in the head to murder someone.
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No, HB, you don't. That's precisely it. One doesn't have to be depraved or ****ed up in the head to murder someone.

Gang members do it every day. I wouldn't say they're "****ed up in the head". Maybe young (or old) and stupid, but hardly ****ed up in the head or depraved.
 
HumanityBlues said:
Look at the crime scene photos. This wasn't a freaking accident. No one fell on a knife. Ya an accident. That's exactly what the crime scene looks like. One big giant accident......
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I think more like the judges' report it was that it was not a murder that was planned long in advance of the crime. The murder may have happened as the prank/torture accelerated and there was no turning back as they realized they were already set to do time for the torture and sexual assault?
 
43degreesNorth said:
I think more like the judges' report it was that it was not a murder that was planned long in advance of the crime. The murder may have happened as the prank/torture accelerated and there was no turning back as they realized they were already set to do time for the torture and sexual assault?
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The judge's report says in essence, Rudy saw Amanda and Raffaele having a good sexy time and got so consumed with hormones that he had to have his way with Meredith. Then Amanda and Raffaele, for god knows what reason, say to themselves, jeez, lets torment this girl too, why not?

The judge's theory is stupid. If you find this narrative persuasive, what can anyone say to you?
 
HumanityBlues said:
The judge's report says in essence, Rudy saw Amanda and Raffaele having a good sexy time and got so consumed with hormones that he had to have his way with Meredith. Then Amanda and Raffaele, for god knows what reason, say to themselves, jeez, lets torment this girl too, why not?

The judge's theory is stupid. If you find this narrative persuasive, what can anyone say to you?
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Why is that theory stupid? This isn't the first time a rape has turned into murder...
 
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