Merged Two Mosques to be built near Ground Zero

[Safe-Keeper]

In the thread over at General Forums at subsim.com, several other forumers went to great length to explain to us naïve sheep that Islam is a violent, woman-hating, intolerant religion because the Qur'an says so and so. When I pointed out to them that there are moderates among Muslims, too, and that this centre was being built to promote this approach to Islam, they immediately told me that moderate Muslims are not "true Muslims", and that the Qur'an says the "real" Muslims should kill them. At that point, I left the thread.

 

[marksman]

This is silly. Muslims live and work in Manhattan. Many of them live and work in lower Manhattan, where Ground Zero is. That's why there were dozens of Muslims among the victims when the Twin Towers collapsed. As the article says, "On Friday evenings the mosque, which is popular with street vendors and taxi drivers, becomes so crowded that worshipers spill onto nearby sidewalks to pray in what has come to be a community event."

This mosque was the prior site of their mosque, which was located only 4 blocks from Ground Zero. They lost their lease and are looking for new space. I don't see any problem with a mosque being built two blocks from Ground Zero. Heck, at least something is being built down there. It's been almost ten years and we still don't have a memorial!

 

[Safe-Keeper]

This mosque was the prior site of their mosque, which was located only 4 blocks from Ground Zero. They lost their lease and are looking for new space. I don't see any problem with a mosque being built two blocks from Ground Zero. Heck, at least something is being built down there. It's been almost ten years and we still don't have a memorial!

It would be very awesome if the site ended up in Islamic hands by accident and they built a giant mosque there.

 

[Thunder]

didn't like 5,000 Americans die at Ground Zero???

they was all killed by da evil Muslims!!!

Da evil Muslims are trying to take over America!!!

America for Americans!!!

 

[One Skunk Todd]

If any religion can build a house of worship near Ground Zero, all religions can build a house of worship there.

Out of curiosity I tried a quick check of Google Earth using the "churches" filter. There appear to be dozens of churches within 5 to 10 blocks, and another 10 or 12 synagogues. The closest mosque I could find was on East 55th street, but that's probably an accuracy issue with the Google Earth data.

I'm sure there must be some mosques (the one in question should be listed, for example) but they don't appear. The altitude at which you view things makes a difference as to whether the icon appears so that may be affecting my count too.

 

[Thunder]

The closest mosque I could find was on East 55th street, but that's probably an accuracy issue with the Google Earth data.

that ain't far enough. we gotta keep these evil, blood sucking, head-shrinking, Mohammedan devil-worshippers as far away from our Holy Ground Zero, as possible!!

 

[Polaris]

In the thread over at General Forums at subsim.com, several other forumers went to great length to explain to us naïve sheep that Islam is a violent, woman-hating, intolerant religion because the Qur'an says so and so. When I pointed out to them that there are moderates among Muslims, too, and that this centre was being built to promote this approach to Islam, they immediately told me that moderate Muslims are not "true Muslims", and that the Qur'an says the "real" Muslims should kill them. At that point, I left the thread.

None of what they said was factually incorrect. Islam is violent, woman-hating and intolerant, and the deaths of apostates and second-class citizenship through mob-style "protection" of non-believers is called for in the purest forms of the faith.

But...

...the vast majority of Muslims know the rules and simply ignore them, same as Christians, etc. They do this because they're good people (as opposed to good Muslims).

Personally I don't think another mosque should be built anywhere in the universe (and given my druthers I'd rip the existing ones down too, save a few for architectual/historical/aesthetic merit) Ditto for every other house of worship. But there's no legal reason it shouldn't be built anywhere near GZ - this is the price paid for the First Amendment.

All that said, if this new Islamic center segregates the pool (not the locker rooms but the pool itself), fine them for discrimination.

 

[rwguinn]

It does have a bit of "in your face" appearance to it, howeveer.

 

[Darth Rotor]

In the thread over at General Forums at subsim.com, several other forumers went to great length to explain to us naïve sheep that Islam is a violent, woman-hating, intolerant religion because the Qur'an says so and so.

One problem I have with this line is that the woman hating, intolerance, violence, etcetera is what happens in practice, regardless of what Al Quran says, or doesn't say, what the Hadithes say and don't say, and what various jurists and clerics promote, or don't. Pick and choose ...

When I pointed out to them that there are moderates among Muslims, too, and that this centre was being built to promote this approach to Islam, they immediately told me that moderate Muslims are not "true Muslims", and that the Qur'an says the "real" Muslims should kill them.

I didn't know Muslims had to wear kilts. I thought the beards were the mandatory deal ...

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Of course it is. There are lots of Muslims with more than questionable moral values, but using that as an argument against a given mosque in a given city, when you know nothing of the people building it, is just pointless.

 

[Thunder]

How about a brand new RCC church, full of pedophile priests, right next to GZ.

now that would really scare me.

 

[Arisia]

...
Well that makes perfect sense...

'bout as much sense as banning a local community of Muslims from building a facility within a certain distance of the WTC site, right?

Maybe you should go back to lurking?

Pleasant.

It seems what they are doing is seeking to build a facility for an existing local community of Muslims. If NYC officials had a problem with it, I'm sure they would have come up with a way to prevent it by now.

 

[Thunder]

you know, I don't know of any NYers who not only give a damn about this Mosque, or who even know about it.

never mind the fact that its not JUST a mosque, but a big building with a Mosque inside. its not like a 13 story version of Al Aqsa is being built in lower Manhattan. get a grip folks.

 

[MikeMangum]

anyways...

there is no good reason not to build a mosque near GZ. there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims in NYC and they have the right to build religious and cultural institutions.

Absolutely. However, the choice of location, and the fact that they chose September 11, 2011 as the opening date are probably a large part of what rubs people the wrong way.

ETA: Imagine if someone built twin "American Cultural Centers" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with opening dates of Aug 6, 2011 and Aug 9, 2011, respectively.

 

[rwguinn]

Absolutely. However, the choice of location, and the fact that they chose September 11, 2011 as the opening date are probably a large part of what rubs people the wrong way.

ETA: Imagine if someone built twin "American Cultural Centers" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with opening dates of Aug 6, 2011 and Aug 9, 2011, respectively.

It's the 1 story swimming pool, connected to the 3 story community center, which is connected to the 10 story museum, which is connected to the 3 story school that add to the distaste...

 

[TraneWreck]

Absolutely. However, the choice of location, and the fact that they chose September 11, 2011 as the opening date are probably a large part of what rubs people the wrong way.

ETA: Imagine if someone built twin "American Cultural Centers" in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, with opening dates of Aug 6, 2011 and Aug 9, 2011, respectively.

If their goal is to promote moderate Islam and directly oppose the sort of radical theology that motivated the attacks, why wouldn't you see the choice of that date as a tribute? A statement that says, "we are devoted to fostering a peaceful religion in the names of those who have fallen," or something similar?

 

[Polaris]

If their goal is to promote moderate Islam and directly oppose the sort of radical theology that motivated the attacks, why wouldn't you see the choice of that date as a tribute? A statement that says, "we are devoted to fostering a peaceful religion in the names of those who have fallen," or something similar?

September 11 isn't just important in Islamic history because of 9/11. It was also the date of the Battle of Vienna, which was the end of Islamic expansion into the Western world. That's possibly why OBL chose that date for the attacks, so basically say "the war's on again".

Whatever the reason for choosing that date to open this center, it's unsettling all the same.

 

[dudalb]

September 11 isn't just important in Islamic history because of 9/11. It was also the date of the Battle of Vienna, which was the end of Islamic expansion into the Western world. That's possibly why OBL chose that date for the attacks, so basically say "the war's on again".

Whatever the reason for choosing that date to open this center, it's unsettling all the same.

I support the right for a Mosque to be open, but I agree choosing that date is really bad PR, unless they make a forcefull condemnation of Al Qaida and radical Islam.

 

[Rogue1stclass]

Eh, this is America. We have the right be ********.

 

[Thunder]

I just don't want dem darn terrorists soo close to Holy Ground. They killed 3,000 Americans, ya know.