Split Thread How did the jets manage to hit center columns and ground floors?

[fess]

I wonder why Flight 175 didn't hit center mass. Maybe Atta was just showing off.

What a god damned moronic thread, and it's not jammonius for a change.

Sure could have fooled me!

 

[Scott Sommers]

This is folk science at its best. People with no formal training in anything relevant and little understanding of what really matters looking around for things they think are important. They have some idea that finding statistically unusual events and then linking them with other events is what's important. But because they don't know what should and shouldn't be important, they hook onto the strangest things. And then their proof that it must be important is that none of real 'experts' have an explanation for it.

unexplained bright dust/smoke

Must be important if it's unexplained. Right?

This science stuff isn't so hard afterall. Right achimspok? Just look around for 'unexplained' things and point them out. Kind of like what you saw on the X-Files last season. But I recommend CSI. They have a better model of explanation there.

 

[achimspok]

Question:

Could anyone explain to me what the hell the relevance is of AA11 hitting or not hitting some center column?

Answer:

Since we have hi-def video of a plane hitting and huge damage and fires and that the initiation started exactly where the planes hit there are no longer any rational reasons for suspecting foul play in the collapse.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

20th November 2000:
On November 20 Atta arrived at the small local airfield in Venice Florida to take his instrument license test.

19th December 2000:
Atta and Shehhi took their commercial pilot license tests at Huffman Aviation, completing their schooling.

21st December 2000:
Atta gets his commercial pilot rating ("airplane multiengine land / instrument airplane / private pilot privileges / airplane single engine land")

29/30 December 2000:
Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi take flight simulator training course 3 hours each on a 727 simulator at the SimCenter, Opa Locka

What's a commercial pilot?
A commercial pilot can be paid for certain types of operation, such as banner towing, agricultural applications, and photograph.

The faster speed gives better control, is that what you are saying?

No that's not what I'm saying and your statement is completely wrong. Certainly a deep breeze of your non-twoofer skills of whatsoever???

It was a trained pilot, all the terrorists trained and had FAA tickets; you are a liar.

Atta had 3 hours of flight simulator experience on a 727.

Any kid can crash a 767/757 into buildings.

You are the liar here. But probably your kids used some GPS based Joint Precision Approach and Landing System. Otherwise, tell the FAA about your kids.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

So, is achimspok's proposal that the jet was deliberately aiming for that center column?

 

[achimspok]

I hope you don't take yourself seriously, but I'm beginning to wonder...

Oh, Hi alienentity, your WTC7-did-not-fall-at-gravity video still on YT? I know it's of topic but that's when I started to wonder. You know why.

1) The other plane hit WTC2 in a completely different way

AA11 UA175 (allegedly)
speed 490mph 580mph (approx)
angle 4° 0° (approx)
floor as known
structural area (what types of structural areas could you probably hit?)

2) There's nothing to indicate that the plane couldn't have impacted a few floors higher or lower than it did, and that the floors it actually hit weren't random.
*Both flew directly into a closed computer room (for whatever reason).
*lower approach from north dangerous

3) There's no explanation - except for random adjustments by the pilot- why the aircraft had it's wings tipped to the degree they were. - Are you going to ignore the non-level wing angles and just focus on one aspect which fits a hallucinated theory?
There was no random adjustment. e.g. UA175 precisely leveled at much above VNE. That plane approached in a straight line and did one maneuver 3 sec prior to the hit.

I'm sure that guy with the kids in a simulator will tell you how that can be.

 

[achimspok]

There is an awful lot of buttons in a Boeing cockpit, so it's easy to hit the wrong one.

Yes, that what I'm saying. ...but after 3 hours in a simulator one year before ...No problem for kids, really!
It's just one horn.

What bothers me is that no aviation expert on 9/11 knew whether or not a Boeing could stand that speed at sea level. How the terrorists knew?

 

[sylvan8798]

What is your point with all this, achimspok?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Atta had 3 hours of flight simulator experience on a 727.

You are the liar here. But probably your kids used some GPS based Joint Precision Approach and Landing System. Otherwise, tell the FAA about your kids.

Is it possible that you're just wrong about how hard it is to hit a target with a plane?

Mythbusters showed that it's at least plausible that a totally untrained person could land an airliner if they were closely coached by a trained pilot. The 9/11 hijackers were not totally untrained and hitting a building is a hell of a lot easier than landing a plane. Ergo, hitting a building would be child's play for anyone with any pilot training.

 

[beachnut]

20th November 2000:
On November 20 Atta arrived at the small local airfield in Venice Florida to take his instrument license test.

19th December 2000:
Atta and Shehhi took their commercial pilot license tests at Huffman Aviation, completing their schooling.

21st December 2000:
Atta gets his commercial pilot rating ("airplane multiengine land / instrument airplane / private pilot privileges / airplane single engine land")

29/30 December 2000:
Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi take flight simulator training course 3 hours each on a 727 simulator at the SimCenter, Opa Locka

What's a commercial pilot?
A commercial pilot can be paid for certain types of operation, such as banner towing, agricultural applications, and photograph.


No that's not what I'm saying and your statement is completely wrong. Certainly a deep breeze of your non-twoofer skills of whatsoever???


Atta had 3 hours of flight simulator experience on a 727.

You are the liar here. But probably your kids used some GPS based Joint Precision Approach and Landing System. Otherwise, tell the FAA about your kids.

What is your point? You just proved the terrorists had flight training.

Any kid could crash into buildings, it is fact. The 767/757 are easier to fly than the 727 and 707, have you flown a 707? I think I have a type rating in the 707.

I do. What are your flying credentials?

I have flown people in aircraft and simulators who had no previous flight training and they could hit targets smaller than the WTC.
I am not a liar, you have no real knowledge on flying. Do you have an ATP?

Are you trying to say a commercial pilot can't fly a large jet and crash it? W.W.S.D.

Yes, that what I'm saying. ...but after 3 hours in a simulator one year before ...No problem for kids, really!
It's just one horn.

What bothers me is that no aviation expert on 9/11 knew whether or not a Boeing could stand that speed at sea level. How the terrorists knew?

What aviation experts? All of the experts I know have no doubts the Boeing 757/767 can exceed Vmo for the time they did on 911. You never asked an aviation expert in person, you have lies, hearsay and fantasy from dolts you googled.

 

[JimBenArm]

How did it hit the center column and the ground floor? Easy. It hit the center column, it exploded, then it fell to the ground when the building collapsed.
Got any hard questions? Better yet, got any questions that aren't mind-numbingly stupid?

 

[The Big Dog]

For what it is worth, i know we've done this same exact topic before.

Same smart ass tone as i recall as well. Oh well.

 

[BigAl]

Yes, that what I'm saying. ...but after 3 hours in a simulator one year before ...No problem for kids, really!
It's just one horn.

What bothers me is that no aviation expert on 9/11 knew whether or not a Boeing could stand that speed at sea level. How the terrorists knew?

By pushing the throttle as far as it would go.

Jeesh.

Published limits to maximum maneuvers are set such that the owner of the plane isn't pissed when he gets the plane back. The hijackers didn't care what the owner thought.

 

[ProBonoShill]

Question:


Answer:


------------------------------------------------------------------------

20th November 2000:
On November 20 Atta arrived at the small local airfield in Venice Florida to take his instrument license test.

19th December 2000:
Atta and Shehhi took their commercial pilot license tests at Huffman Aviation, completing their schooling.
21st December 2000:
Atta gets his commercial pilot rating ("airplane multiengine land / instrument airplane / private pilot privileges / airplane single engine land")

29/30 December 2000:
Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi take flight simulator training course 3 hours each on a 727 simulator at the SimCenter, Opa Locka

What's a commercial pilot?
A commercial pilot can be paid for certain types of operation, such as banner towing, agricultural applications, and photograph.

I love it when these guys refute their own arguments.


A few questions achimspok:

1) Have you ever piloted a plane of any type?

2) Have you ever been in the cockpit of a plane during a flight?

3) Is landing a plane more difficult than controlling it during flight?

I guess your saying since I'm only licensed to operate a passenger motor vehicle, I'd never be able to steer a school bus into a building.

That's a shame, I always wanted to drive a school bus.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Welcome, ProBonoShill. Yes, some of these conspiracy peddlers do in fact sink their own arguments. And some simply don't construct them. And others... well, if you choose to participate further here, you'll see.

Anyway, welcome aboard!

 

[Travis]

Welcome to the fray ProBonoShill.


Okay, suppose we concede that the center column was hit in WTC1 and that is was being aimed for. What of it?

I dare say we might get some Stundies from achimspok.

 

[Bell]

Okay, suppose we concede that the center column was hit in WTC1 and that is was being aimed for. What of it?

It means there was an accomplice on site, who marked the center column with "<--- HIT HERE"

 

[ProBonoShill]

Welcome, ProBonoShill. Yes, some of these conspiracy peddlers do in fact sink their own arguments. And some simply don't construct them. And others... well, if you choose to participate further here, you'll see.

Anyway, welcome aboard!

Welcome to the fray ProBonoShill.


Okay, suppose we concede that the center column was hit in WTC1 and that is was being aimed for. What of it?

I dare say we might get some Stundies from achimspok.

Thanks

I must say, I was unaware there were people who actually still believed in this nonsense until a few months ago.

 

[Oystein]

Yes, that what I'm saying. ...but after 3 hours in a simulator one year before ...No problem for kids, really!
It's just one horn.

Care to explain what your argument is here? Contempt and rolling eyes is no substitute for an argument.
Yes, there is one big horn right in front of the pilot's seat, and if you push it left, right, forward back, your plane will follow nicely, and even you could steer it into a building, because the horn is designed to make steering the plane dead simple!

What bothers me is that no aviation expert on 9/11 knew whether or not a Boeing could stand that speed at sea level. How the terrorists knew?

This is complete ******** pulled out of someone's arse. If commercial jets were prone to disintegrating by simply flying a little low a little fast, they'd never get a license for anything.

 

[Dave Rogers]

What bothers me is that no aviation expert on 9/11 knew whether or not a Boeing could stand that speed at sea level. How the terrorists knew?

Even if this were true, it's simply another application of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. You're assuming that the terrorists planned to fly the planes at exactly that speed, and knew they'd succeed. In fact, if (as you say) they were novice pilots who didn't really know much about what they were doing, it makes more sense to assume they simply didn't worry too much about VNE, but just pointed the plane at the building and opened the throttle. They weren't particularly interested in preventing minor damage to the airframes.

Dave

 

[Oystein]

Question:


Answer:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
20th November 2000:
On November 20 Atta ... [some copy&page stuff that achim doesn't even understand snipped] ... Opa Locka

What's a commercial pilot?
A commercial pilot can be paid for certain types of operation, such as banner towing, agricultural applications, and photograph.

No that's not what I'm saying and your statement is completely wrong. Certainly a deep breeze of your non-twoofer skills of whatsoever???

Atta had 3 hours of flight simulator experience on a 727.
[qimg]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6056/multienginetime.png[/qimg]

You are the liar here. But probably your kids used some GPS based Joint Precision Approach and Landing System. Otherwise, tell the FAA about your kids.

You explicitly quoted Bell with

Originally Posted by Bell
Could anyone explain to me what the hell the relevance is of AA11 hitting or not hitting some center column?

and then went on not answering this at all.

So please: explain to us what the hell the relevance is of AA11 hitting or not hitting some center column?

For example: Does the center column have any properties that its neighbours don't have, other than the aesthetic or honorable property of being, well, in the center? Does it have any special role in the static construction?