Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Alt+F4]

Let's not get carried away with a discussion of world history.

Yeah, let's not. I teach it.

A prosecutor who sues or otherwise punishes everybody who speaks out against him does not believe in free speech and engenders fear in those who disagree with him. The end.

If you disagree with his actions, fine. But to insinuate that his actions are somehow related to a regime in his country that existed before he was even born (or was only a small child) does nothing but cheapen your argument.

 

[quadraginta]

I'm sure Germans the world over appreciate your implications.

On the other hand, no Italians would be offended by yours?

Two-faced, much?

 

[quadraginta]

In the long run it matters a lot, because if Italy stands firm against an international protest of a verdict based on flimsy evidence and suspicions of misconduct, they will be become a laughingstock of the world, and they don't want that.

What international protest? All I've ever heard came from Americans and American media. How do we know this wasn't orchestrated by Marriott? They are earning their money somehow and so far I've seen little else than a strategy of accusing the Italians of organizing a giant conspiracy against a nobody student and labeling everything the authorities did as utter incompetence. And all this from people who did not attend the trial or even speak or read Italian.

Where are the protests from all these other countries? The world isn't laughing.

[/quote]


I think that Mary _H has confused protests by people in other countries with protests by other countries.

Maybe she would like to share the results of her investigations into the formal diplomatic steps taken by the U.S. (or any other country) in protest of Knox's conviction.

 

[christianahannah]

I will probably be in the minority viewpoint on this subject but I don't fault Amanda or her parents for trying to get her story out to the media and public at large.

Others profit or push their agendas concerning this case by publishing books, forming advocacy websites, giving interviews to the media, etc. but we frown when a person who is most affected by a case (and I'm only focusing on the person being tried) tries to use the media to get their story out there.

The only thing I might do different is work in cooperation with my attorney. Amanda may be doing that and reports to the contrary are erroneous.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I will probably be in the minority viewpoint on this subject but I don't fault Amanda or her parents for trying to get her story out to the media and public at large.

Others profit or push their agendas concerning this case by publishing books, forming advocacy websites, giving interviews to the media, etc. but we frown when a person who is most affected by a case (and I'm only focusing on the person being tried) tries to use the media to get their story out there.

The only thing I might do different is work in cooperation with my attorney. Amanda may be doing that and reports to the contrary are erroneous.

It's not about 'getting her story out'. It's about making money. They need cash.

 

[Danceme]

I will probably be in the minority viewpoint on this subject but I don't fault Amanda or her parents for trying to get her story out to the media and public at large.

Others profit or push their agendas concerning this case by publishing books, forming advocacy websites, giving interviews to the media, etc. but we frown when a person who is most affected by a case (and I'm only focusing on the person being tried) tries to use the media to get their story out there.

The only thing I might do different is work in cooperation with my attorney. Amanda may be doing that and reports to the contrary are erroneous.

I don't have any problem with that either, or with them trying to raise money through her interview to pay the costs of her trial. They believe in her innocence, she's their child, and they want to do whatever it takes to get her off. I just hope they wouldn't be doing all this if they knew she was guilty.

The only issue I have ever had is with the strategy of calling everything a conspiracy, face saving and mass incompetence. I just find it not credible and frankly, a bit ridiculous.

 

[Mary_H]

I see...spare the Germans but the Italians are fair game?

I rather suspect, were the trial taking place in Germany your insults against the Germans and defence of the Italians would be equally robust. Whatever's convenient.

If that's the way you feel, then all the guilters should stop accusing Amanda's supporters of racism against the Italians. According to you, we apply our insults equally across the board regardless of race or creed.

Discussing the failure of the Perugian court system is pertinent to this discussion. Attacking Amanda because of her ethnic heritage is not.

Edited by LashL: 

Removed quoted breach of Rule 12

Not that I am aware of.

 

[Mary_H]

Yeah, let's not. I teach it.

If you disagree with his actions, fine. But to insinuate that his actions are somehow related to a regime in his country that existed before he was even born (or was only a small child) does nothing but cheapen your argument.

You teach history but you deny that a political ethos is passed from generation to generation? You need to get a little perspective. Well, actually, a lot.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I see...spare the Germans but the Italians are fair game?

I rather suspect, were the trial taking place in Germany your insults against the Germans and defence of the Italians would be equally robust. Whatever's convenient.

If that's the way you feel, then all the guilters should stop accusing Amanda's supporters of racism against the Italians. According to you, we apply our insults equally across the board regardless of race or creed.

Discussing the failure of the Perugian court system is pertinent to this discussion. Attacking Amanda because of her ethnic heritage is not.

But it's okay to attack the Prosecution and Perugian Police Officers, and Judges, and people of Perugia/Italy based solely on their ethnic heritage?


Ok.


(spin spin spin)

 

[Mary_H]

On the other hand, no Italians would be offended by yours?

Two-faced, much?

I have nothing against the Italians or the Germans. We are talking about a group of individuals who happen to be Italian. If a similar group of individuals in a different country had behaved as the court in Perugia has, I would criticize them, too -- for their actions, not their ethnicity.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

You teach history but you deny that a political ethos is passed from generation to generation? You need to get a little perspective. Well, actually, a lot.

I must say, I'm quite impressed that a Godwin was able to occur in this thread (although, I'm not sure this is the first time).


Mary, you began this by accusing the Italian Judiciary of being fascists. Do you have any evidence of this? Didn't think so. Rather, this just more conjecture based purely on your mental gymnastic ability to twist everything and everyone to indicate Amanda is Innocent and the entire Italian Judiciary is Evil.

 

[Mary_H]

I think that Mary _H has confused protests by people in other countries with protests by other countries.

Maybe she would like to share the results of her investigations into the formal diplomatic steps taken by the U.S. (or any other country) in protest of Knox's conviction.

I thought we were talking about why Amanda's family might want to increase awareness of the case, eventualy leading to widespread protests.

 

[Mary_H]

It's not about 'getting her story out'. It's about making money. They need cash.

Do you have evidence they are being paid?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I have nothing against the Italians or the Germans. We are talking about a group of individuals who happen to be Italian. If a similar group of individuals in a different country had behaved as the court in Perugia has, I would criticize them, too -- for their actions, not their ethnicity.

Excuse me, what?

This does not jive with this:

The fact that Italy is only a generation or two removed from a Fascist regime should not require that we have to goose-step in order to communicate with them.

nor with this:

You teach history but you deny that a political ethos is passed from generation to generation? You need to get a little perspective. Well, actually, a lot.

 

[nicole]

From 'TJMK - How Each of The Three Subtly But Surely Pushed The Other Two Closer to The Fire (Part 3 of 4)':

"So why did he (Rudy) reserve the right to indicate his alleged accomplices at a later time?"

Very odd that 'Cesare Beccaria' should say this as I thought Rudy has always maintained "it wasn't me Guv" and so couldn't have any "accomplices", alleged or otherwise.

But apart from that this sound like a plea bargain to me. Am I wrong?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

I thought we were talking about why Amanda's family might want to increase awareness of the case, eventualy leading to widespread protests.

Ahh, so you advocate for something outside the courtroom changing the conviction?

Sorry, but again you are stating that something outside the courtroom will influence the trial.

 

[Fulcanelli]

If that's the way you feel, then all the guilters should stop accusing Amanda's supporters of racism against the Italians. According to you, we apply our insults equally across the board regardless of race or creed.

Discussing the failure of the Perugian court system is pertinent to this discussion. Attacking Amanda because of her ethnic heritage is not.



Not that I am aware of.

It's not how 'I' feel. I was mirroring you, simply to expose your bigotry.

Edited by Locknar: 

Edited, Breach of Rule 12 removed.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Do you have evidence they are being paid?

They are selling the interview.

It seems to me, you're not only concerned about defending Amanda's case in regard to the evidence, but also her and her family's PR. I'm wondering why that is.

 

[Mary_H]

Mary, you began this by accusing the Italian Judiciary of being fascists. Do you have any evidence of this? Didn't think so. Rather, this just more conjecture based purely on your mental gymnastic ability to twist everything and everyone to indicate Amanda is Innocent and the entire Italian Judiciary is Evil.

A Fascist or any kind of government doesn't rise to power in a population that is not tolerant of it in some way, usually culturally.

You might as well be accusing me of making up reports that Arab countries oppress women; that's how valid your position is.

 

[Mary_H]

Ahh, so you advocate for something outside the courtroom changing the conviction?

Amanda's supporters KNOW something outside the courtroom affected the outcome of the trial. It is usually the argument of the guilters that the case was decided on the basis of evidence.