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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Akhenaten said:
I created heaps of pictures in that 'genre' ages ago to amuse my daughter, and lacking anything better to call them they became known as 'Space Eggs'. That particular one is imaginatively called 'Yet Another Space Egg' and for some reason, your post reminded me simultaneously of this picture and of the quote from Revelation.

Safe to say I've been involved with this thread for way too long, I think.

I have to wonder how Joobz and pax have kept their sanity. :) Cheers, mate.
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Assumes facts not in evidence.:)
 
DOC said:
I believe it was 2 at the last count.
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So you base your argument on 11 translations, out of thousands? Not very convincing, is it? Could you please tell me why those translations should carry so much weight? Do you somehow believe that English translations are more important than others, or that English translators are the ultimate experts?

DOC said:
What is your source that most experts believe the word doulos as used in the gospels in reference to the Jewish culture of that time (not Greek culture) meant slave.

Do you consider the writers of those 9 translations non-experts?
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Did you read my post about translations at all? I would be very interested to see you address the points I made. I would also like to ask you if you do not believe that the writers of the NT knew what the word doulos meant when they used it? And do you think that they were perhaps ignorant of the meanings of other words they used as well?

I have no idea if the translators you are talking about were experts or not. You have not told me which translations you are referring to, and it would be very difficult for me to assess their capabilities based only on their failure to translate the doulos correctly. But you may be sure that older translations are less accurate on the whole than more recent ones.

One more thing, DOC, most experts do not believe that doulos means slave. They know. And if you need a source I suggest that you consult a Greek-English dictionary.
(Here is one: http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/)
 
tsig said:
Assumes facts not in evidence.:)
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I must admit, on re-consideration I can't help noticing that this is a really good thread to hide out in if one is prone to being a little eccentric, which explains all but one of the posters here, who goes so far as to assume evidence not in evidence.
 
Just a request here for all the posters that can read a language other than English. If you are so inclined, would you please look up the verse that joobz refers to and tell us if the word is slave, servant, or something else. Thank you in advance.
 
doulos = slave, please let's move on to "evidence for why the writers..."

Helen said:
One more thing, DOC, most experts do not believe that doulos means slave. They know. And if you need a source I suggest that you consult a Greek-English dictionary.
(Here is one: http://www.kypros.org/cgi-bin/lexicon/)
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I have in my hand the Richard Lattimore translation of the NT from the original Greek. This was always my favorite NT, because it doesn't use flowery language at all. He just translates the Greek as it was written.

pages 158-159 said:
Blessed are those slaves whom this master returning finds wide awake; truly I tell you, he will gird himself up and set them down to done and go about and wait on them ...

Blessed is that slave whom his master arriving finds doing this; truly I tell you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. But if that slave says in his heart: My master is late returning; and begins to beat the men-servants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk; the master of that slave will come on a day with he does not expect him in the hour when he is unaware, and cut him to ribbons, and make his lot one with the unfaithful. That slave who knows the will of his master, and does not make ready or act according to his will, will be beaten with many strokes, but the one who knows nothing and does what deserved whipping will be beaten with few strokes.
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I think that the whipping / lashes and the word "slave" are pretty clear there.

To say that Lattimore was the expert on ancient Greek is not an understatement. His translations are well known, and this New Testament was one of the most important projects of his life. Here is a blurb from one review:

To say that Professor Lattimore's skill in translating both ancient and Hellenistic Greek is outstanding is to understate the matter. His ability is now legendary. Readers of his translations of Homer, Aeskylus, Euripides, and many others have long hailed them as the superlative editions of the works. We can all thank God that he saw fit to apply his talent to this, the most famous of all the Hellenistic Greek documents.
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So...

DOC said:
What is your source that most experts believe the word doulos as used in the gospels in reference to the Jewish culture of that time (not Greek culture) meant slave.
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The New Testament was written in Greek. In particular, Luke (a Gentile) was writing to "my dear Theophilus."
:GREECE:
 
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Wolrab said:
Just a request here for all the posters that can read a language other than English. If you are so inclined, would you please look up the verse that joobz refers to and tell us if the word is slave, servant, or something else. Thank you in advance.
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I did this here.
 
Just popping in to see if any evidence has been presented yet. Carry on! :p
 
Wolrab said:
Just a request here for all the posters that can read a language other than English. If you are so inclined, would you please look up the verse that joobz refers to and tell us if the word is slave, servant, or something else. Thank you in advance.
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The older translations I have access to have servant (tjänare in Swedish), and so does our newest translation (NT in 1980); bowing to tradition, and keeping quotations intact. There is a new translation on the way, and there doulos is correctly translated with slav (Swedish for slave). As far as I can tell (a simple search by Google), there really is no controversy here; translators and believers alike agree that it means slave.
 
Filippo Lippi said:
I wonder just how JC is going to reward DOC for keeping this thread at the top of page one.
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I think you might be apportioning credit where it's not quite due.

DOC is no more important to this thread than the rodeo clowns are to the Calgary Stampede.

Or should that be gay rodeo clowns to the Calvary Stampede.


Gosh, it's confusing.
 
Akhenaten said:
I think you might be apportioning credit where it's not quite due.

DOC is no more important to this thread than the rodeo clowns are to the Calgary Stampede.

Or should that be gay rodeo clowns to the Calvary Stampede.


Gosh, it's confusing.
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Why are you insulting the poor gay rodeo clowns?
 
Good point. It somehow slipped my mind momentarily that the Gay Rodeo Clowns are the Calvary Stampede, and so I have restored their capitalised status.

My apologies, GRCs.

:grouphug4​
 
and that is the funny part

Helen said:
As far as I can tell (a simple search by Google), there really is no controversy here; translators and believers alike agree that it means slave.
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No controversy at all. For example, I posted the translation of a believer. This was his life's work. DOC denying the reality of something so trivial says a lot about his mindset.
 
Do it matter what you call someone, does that give you the right to beat them.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
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