Muhammed cartoonist attacked

Darth Rotor said:
You can see this action as fostering a charge that the newspapers chose to become complicit in censorship ... but it's probably due to the high foam, low beer, content of their comments sections at the moment.

Funny, newspaper comments sections are often more foam than beer.

DR
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I would say they are allways pretty much foam all the way, but they are seldomly closed just because of that. On issues like this they are for the most part closed from the start. But they forced by law to censor, so i dont really blame them that much.
 
Over in Pharyngula there are some commenters claiming that Muslims are an oppressed and abused minority in Northern Europe well within their rights to do this kind of stuff. Are Muslims being abused in Northern Europe?
 
Darth Rotor said:
When was the last Hindu riot over artistic blasphemy? There may have been one, I am just unaware of such.
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It has happened, although as a rule it does seem to be Muslims who get the most aggressively exercised about this sort of thing. Or at least who get the most press. Perhaps they just have better PR agencies?
 
Travis said:
Over in Pharyngula there are some commenters claiming that Muslims are an oppressed and abused minority in Northern Europe well within their rights to do this kind of stuff. Are Muslims being abused in Northern Europe?
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Is Belgium Northern Europe? IIRC, they recently banned/outlawed burkhas, but the details aren't well placed in my brain.

DR
 
Over in Pharyngula there are some commenters claiming that Muslims are an oppressed and abused minority in Northern Europe well within their rights to do this kind of stuff. Are Muslims being abused in Northern Europe?
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Can Westerners do this sort of thing in countries where Christians are an oppressed and abused minority? I think there would be accusations of racism and ethnocentrism all around if Western Christians attacked an artist for depicting two people having sex with Jesus masks. Not that they would.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
Can Westerners do this sort of thing in countries where Christians are an oppressed and abused minority? I think there would be accusations of racism and ethnocentrism all around if Western Christians attacked an artist for depicting two people having sex with Jesus masks. Not that they would.
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If you are interested in how this plays out, try to find stories about Palestinian Christians, Chaldeans, and Syrian Christians making similar protests in Israel, Iraq, or Syria. I don't think those areas are protest free, but it doesn't seem to play out the same way.

See also Christian protests in China (if you can find evidence of them) or in Viet Nam.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ecuted-as-state-sees-hidden-enemy-543805.html

(Don't know how the Independent stacks up as a paper, but the story is interesting).

Another take on religious tolerance, and state/church relations in Viet Nam, but the article has an obvious bias. Read with grain of salt.
http://www.acton.org/commentary/541_corruption_communism_catholicism.php

DR
 
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Darth Rotor said:
WTF?
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Oh come on Darth, you should know by now that if you criticize Islam it's really just a front to hide the fact that you are a closet racist! ;)

richardm said:
It has happened, although as a rule it does seem to be Muslims who get the most aggressively exercised about this sort of thing. Or at least who get the most press. Perhaps they just have better PR agencies?
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Those were Sikhs, not Hindus. I do recall reading a story about Hindus destroying the sets of a movie in progress because it was rumored it was somehow "blasphemous", but a google search of "hindu blasphemy riot" only returns two pages of stories about Muslims rioting and killing Hindus. because of some perceived slight.
 
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Travis said:
Over in Pharyngula there are some commenters claiming that Muslims are an oppressed and abused minority in Northern Europe well within their rights to do this kind of stuff. Are Muslims being abused in Northern Europe?
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I took a look at the peanut gallery and I find it deliciously ironic that some of the commenters have identified Vilks as a fascist, rather than his attackers.
 
Travis said:
Over in Pharyngula there are some commenters claiming that Muslims are an oppressed and abused minority in Northern Europe well within their rights to do this kind of stuff. Are Muslims being abused in Northern Europe?
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What do you count as abuse? And does Netherlands count as Northern Europe? Since Wilders started his anti-Islam crusade, saying hateful things of Muslims in general has become nearly mainstream.

Legally not. But there are, under our hate-speech laws, much more convictions for antisemitism than for anti-Islam. A large part of that is, though, that the much smaller Jewish community (ca 40,000) is much more vigilant in reporting such things to the police than the Muslim communities (together 800,000), which have largely more taken a stand of "it's part of the game".
 
Islam is about peace and love. It is against the Koran to kill or hurt innocent civilians.

But if you insult the Prophet in ANY WAY....we will cut off your nuts and kill you.

Peace be upon you.
 
Checkmite said:
Indeed, because we all know what those brown savages are capable of, right?
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Please. Everyone I know (save a dozen or so people), work, teach and interact with are Muslims. I also happen to sleep next to one every night. You have to look elsewhere find your bigot because there is none at this address.
Given the fact that people have rioted and called for the tortuous death of Vilks and other cartoonists, I think that getting a mere headbutt was indeed lucky for him.
 
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ddt said:
What do you count as abuse? And does Netherlands count as Northern Europe? Since Wilders started his anti-Islam crusade, saying hateful things of Muslims in general has become nearly mainstream.
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Wilder's statements have been against Islam the belief system, not the followers themselves. Don't see this any different to movements in Western countries against religion by atheists.

Legally not. But there are, under our hate-speech laws, much more convictions for antisemitism than for anti-Islam. A large part of that is, though, that the much smaller Jewish community (ca 40,000) is much more vigilant in reporting such things to the police than the Muslim communities (together 800,000), which have largely more taken a stand of "it's part of the game".
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Where did you pull this out of? There's no 'more vigilance', it has more to do with the European fear from incurring the wrath from ones Muslim population if one were to critisize them or their belief system. Case and point, well, plenty of those.....
 
bigjelmapro said:
Wilder's statements have been against Islam the belief system, not the followers themselves. Don't see this any different to movements in Western countries against religion by atheists.
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No, Wilders specifically also targets Muslims. Peruse a couple of the threads here about Wilders.

bigjelmapro said:
Where did you pull this out of? There's no 'more vigilance', it has more to do with the European fear from incurring the wrath from ones Muslim population if one were to critisize them or their belief system. Case and point, well, plenty of those.....
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It's a fact that organizations like Anne Frank Foundation and CIDI are very vigilant in reporting antisemitic expressions to the police. Mind, I don't give a value judgement. We have hate speech laws, and I'm not going to criticize someone who uses them.

Saying likewise hateful things of Muslims has become a sort of a national sport, thanks to Wilders. It's also a fact that Muslim organizations are not, or have not been so vigilant in reporting such things to the police.
 
ddt said:
No, Wilders specifically also targets Muslims. Peruse a couple of the threads here about Wilders.
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Not a stretch of the imagination if you critisize Islam, you critisize those who follow the belief system. Personally, I don't see too many issues with what he states about ceasing immigration from Islamic countries for the reasons he gives.

You brought up Wilders in this thread when there's plenty of them out there. Why bring it up here then?


It's a fact that organizations like Anne Frank Foundation and CIDI are very vigilant in reporting antisemitic expressions to the police. Mind, I don't give a value judgement. We have hate speech laws, and I'm not going to criticize someone who uses them.
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Not arguing whether there's groups out there that are vigilant against anti-semitism, merely your claim that they are 'more vigilant' than those groups that work against anti-Islamic/anti-Muslim 'expressions'.

Saying likewise hateful things of Muslims has become a sort of a national sport, thanks to Wilders. It's also a fact that Muslim organizations are not, or have not been so vigilant in reporting such things to the police.
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I've personally seen the repercussions of what happens when one critisizes Islam in countries like Holland and the UK and read of plenty more where threats and beatings to those who critisize Islam. And no need to use the terms 'critisize' and 'hate' interchangeably.

The last sentence you have yet to provide evidence for. Merely stating that its a 'fact' doesn't make it so.
 
Pardalis said:
You don't really need to have talent.

I support the man against the Islamic bullies, but If that's the kind of cartoon Vilks is doing, then I guess anyone can draw.
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Well, that's kind of the point. Vilks is getting exactly the reaction he wanted. How else would he have ended up on non Swedish language news being the crap artist that he is?

I don't support bullying, full stop. Neither to shut up people who deride your religion - nor to achieve infamy at the cost of other people.

Vilks does _not_ deserve violence. He _is_ lucky that he didn't fare worse and he _is_ a crap artist who does pick on an easy target. All of the above can be true and not contradict each other. Of course, if he _really_ had some guts he would have picked on Scientology. But _then_ he'd be in for it.
 
FenerFan said:
Please. Everyone I know (save a dozen or so people), work, teach and interact with are Muslims. I also happen to sleep next to one every night.
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Wow, you're lucky you're still alive.

Were the people who called for his death the same people who were protesting at his speaking engagement?
 
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