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Boycott Arizona?

mhaze said:
No offense taken. Tell ya what, how about all your liberal buddies who on ocassion inhale deeply some of that good stuff that comes through Arizona on it's way to their reefers boycott that same good stuff from Arizona?

Whattdayakhow, then they wouldn't need to tighten the Arizona laws up and check those poor mexicans who are just coming over to work but some of them are machine gun toting gangsters running the drugs on over for your liberal buddies and their cold cash.

No?
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I don't do pot. My "liberal buddies" don't do it either as far as I know.

BTW, why not mention conservative pot heads?
 
mortimer said:
Did you have any plans to visit prior to the law passing?
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Why, yes, actually. The Grand Canyon is beautiful, and my sweetie and I have been discussing making a return trip for a number of years.

That trip won't happen for a while. That doesn't bother me -- the Grand Canyon has been there for millions of years (unless you're from Mississippi, in which case it's been there for thousands of years) and will still be there in five years, while I doubt this law will be there two years from now.

(ETA: actually, during our last trip, we even discussed whether U. Az. would be likely to be hiring faculty in my field. My sweetie has rather bad allergies and asthma, and the Arizona climate is very good for that. Again, that's not happening for a while...)
 
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JoeTheJuggler said:
What exactly are you buying that requires you to show your driver's license or other photo ID? I don't.

In fact, I pay for most store purchases with a card that I swipe in a machine.
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Buy alcohol at Target and not only will you have to show your ID, even if you're a 70 year old grandpa, but they will scan it also.

If this law doesn't give state and local police some new authority in dealing with suspected illegal immigrants (what "show me your papers" is short for), then what does it do?
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Nothing in the law requires any person to carry ID. Nor does the burden of proof change - they have to prove you're not a legal immigrant.
 
Rika said:
1) I'm tired and my humor senses are down. 2) Re: ID in stores: You need ID for cigs,beer and you REALLY SHOULD BE carded for credit cards, because all stores are supposed to verify signatures (I choose to verify ID.) In any case, Arizona is not a facist state. (Also, I can understand Arizona Tea throwing Arizona under the bus, I would too.... granted, this is why I don't think I'd name anything after a state, but..)
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IDing for cigs and beer is to verify age, not citizenship.

If the credit card is signed merchants shouldn't be asking for ID as long as the authorization request is approved. It's in the merchant agreement. Same thing with minimum purchase amounts for Visa and Mastercard. If the merchant accepts Visa or Mastercard, they have to accept it for any purchase amount.
 
thaiboxerken said:
If I was a white person, I wouldn't have to worry about not having identification on me while I was jogging down the street. Since I'm not. I won't be going to AZ anytime soon.
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I'm sure nabbing joggers and demanding proof of citizenship will be happening all the time.
 
Spindrift said:
If the credit card is signed merchants shouldn't be asking for ID as long as the authorization request is approved. It's in the merchant agreement.
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Sounds like complete BS to me. Do you have a copy of the merchant's agreement? Because I get asked for photo ID all the time when using a credit card I use for work.
 
WildCat said:
Sounds like complete BS to me. Do you have a copy of the merchant's agreement? Because I get asked for photo ID all the time when using a credit card I use for work.
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Okay, they can ask, but you can refuse and they still have to complete the purchase.

From VISA:

http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf

When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? Although Visa
rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants
cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot
refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to
provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their
regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal
for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or
phone number, on a sales receipt.
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WildCat said:
Buy alcohol at Target and not only will you have to show your ID, even if you're a 70 year old grandpa, but they will scan it also.
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Again, he said nothing about buying liquor.


Nothing in the law requires any person to carry ID. Nor does the burden of proof change - they have to prove you're not a legal immigrant.
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Exactly. I think what's changed is that the law allows state and local police to detain someone that they come into contact with in doing their normal jobs (traffic stops, answering calls at businesses and residences, etc.) if they suspect that they're in the state illegally and ask the federal government to verify their status.
 
KingMerv00 said:
I can't think of one thing that comes out of Arizona. No offense. I'm sure stuff does but I wouldn't know what to boycott.
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I think the boycott is much more about what goes into Arizona: tourism, conventions, and so on.

Again, I think it's too late for MLB even to consider changing the venue for this summer's All-Star Game, but if the law goes into effect, it will be a tense and interesting event.
 
WildCat said:
Sounds like complete BS to me. Do you have a copy of the merchant's agreement? Because I get asked for photo ID all the time when using a credit card I use for work.
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This sounds much more like BS:

MLynn said:
Ken, don't listen to the propoganda - think critically and read the bill. Do you not already present your driver's license or other photo ID when you buy something at a store? This thing about "show me your papers" is BS. Really.
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The law authorizes police to detain people they suspect of being illegal. They can be held unless/until federal agencies inform the local police whether their immigration status is valid. If the person in question can produce good documents, they won't be detained. So effectively, it is "show me your papers" or go to jail for a while.

It's BS to say that we all present our driver's licenses when we buy something at the store.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I think the boycott is much more about what goes into Arizona: tourism, conventions, and so on.

Again, I think it's too late for MLB even to consider changing the venue for this summer's All-Star Game, but if the law goes into effect, it will be a tense and interesting event.
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It will be interesting to see what the latino players do. Last year almost 20 All-Stars were latino including 6 starters. That's a lot of All-Stars that might develop 'strained groins' or some other 'injury' that they miraculously recover from right after the All-Star break.
 
KingMerv00 said:
But is that true? Is failure to carry ID probable cause?
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It's a way to remove probable cause. If an officer has probable cause (not based on race or ethnicity--of course), what do you suppose is the sequence of events? I would imagine the officer would ask the person's status. If the person can show good documents, then the officer will no longer have probable cause.

OTOH, I have no idea what "probable cause" could possibly be if it's not racial/ethnic profiling. These aren't border patrol agents, but local and state cops, so they're not witnessing people coming into the country. There is no outward sign (not language, not ethnicity, not the type of car, the clothing, not the commission of other crimes--nothing) that can distinguish an illegal from a legal immigrant or even a citizen.

If you're a Mexican legally living in Arizona, you would be foolish not to carry your documentation with you, if this law goes into effect. The reason is because producing your papers can remove probable cause.
 
KingMerv00 said:
I don't do pot. My "liberal buddies" don't do it either as far as I know.

BTW, why not mention conservative pot heads?
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Because conservatives never do drugs. They never have homosexual encounters either. They rally against such things because they would never do them.
 
WildCat said:
but at any ratew, nothing in the law requires anyone to have an ID.
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Nothing in the law requires the police to allow you to spend the night outside of a jail cell if you can't produce proof of citizenship, either.
 
WildCat said:
but at any ratew, nothing in the law requires anyone to have an ID.
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You're right. But if you carry your documents, it can save you from being detained.

So I suppose this depends on what you mean by "requires". I would consider it a requirement if carrying your documents can keep you out of jail.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
The law authorizes police to detain people they suspect of being illegal. They can be held unless/until federal agencies inform the local police whether their immigration status is valid. If the person in question can produce good documents, they won't be detained. So effectively, it is "show me your papers" or go to jail for a while.
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It has to be reasonable suspicion. "He looks Mexican" isn't going to cut it, and will likely get the officer and his department in trouble.

It's BS to say that we all present our driver's licenses when we buy something at the store.
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You do, however, need one to drive.

And good luck opening a bank account without an ID.
 
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